Does anyone know the plans for the old 'Jack Stamps' site in West Norwood?

This was discussed a while back. No new information for a while though:


http://www.virtualnorwood.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=531

heard on the rumour mill Jack Stamps pub is to be turned into flats...... shame..
was hoping for a nice new pub/restuarant!!!!

on a positive note - missus has just been to blair on the hill cafe & say it's lovely with friendly people.

Never really went in there but shame it's going. I guess flats make more money...

It's still up for grabs on the estate agent's web site, so I suspect it's not a done deal yet. They would have to get planning permission too...

I saw someone taking beer barrels INTO it yesterday...

Does anyone have any further info on this? I spoke last week to the surveyors who are handling the sale. Apparently the building has been sold, and the plan is to turn it into flats/a doctor's surgery/a 4500 sq ft commercial space (presumably the downstairs area of the pub).

The "commercial space" has planning permission for A1/A2/A3 use (retail/offices/restaurant/pub) and according to the surveyor that element is "under offer" so anything could happen. Hoping for a decent pub though...

Anyone heard anything?

Does anyone know if any offer have been made on the Jack Stamp pup in West Norwood. Myself and my partner are desperate for someone to purchase it and make it into a great local.

It is depressing that we do not have any decent pubs in the area. I think this place could be a goldmine in the right hands.

The plans for flats and commercial units have not proceeded. I think the council planning department threw them out. Obviously it would have been a great shame if such a great building had been chopped up to make commercial units of which there are already a number empty in the high street.

As has been mentioned Jack Stamps seems to periodically crop up on this forum. Great building, great location and would have a dramatic effect on the high street if turned into a nice pub. Or please, please, please a nice gastropub!

Why it hasn't yet I don't know. Maybe people see it as a bit of a gamble in West Norwood? Or is it to do with the building? Is the building in good nick? Does it need a lot of work? Or maybe these pub developers just don't know about West Norwood and the demand there would be?

I have actually wondered whether a forum like this could get a bit proactive. Does anyone know anyone in the gastropub business. Do they tend to be one-offs or do the chains run them as well? Should we start emailling some of the bigger chains who might make a decent job of improving it?

Any ideas??

Rich

Back in the good old days one would easily purchase one's L.S.D from said establishment....

I agree with Rich. I would be up for a bit of pro-active letter writing. Any ideas on companies we could target?

You could try this company Punch Taverns...

I went on the website and Punch taverns look like a company that could do a good refurb. They do gastropubs etc.

There is also information on the website for emailing them. I for one will be up for emailing companies. Any ideas what we should put? Just the business potential I suppose. I will probably right down the agent dealing with it first so I can include that.

Anyone think of other companies we could target??

Rich

What about the people who have taken over The Mansion on Gipsy Road?
(Don't they have the The Dartford Arms in Forest Hill as well?)

Wetherspoon's? Not necessarily my ideal, but it seems more realistic than say, All Bar One (not that I like them that much either!)

By the way, I just checked the estate agent's web site and it says JS's is under offer.

Very interesting. I phoned the agents this afternoon and Jack Stamps is "off the market".

The guy who is dealing with it wasn't in the office so I have left a message for him on his voicemail. I will keep you updated.

Rich

I spoke to a friend (who is a key worker) over the weekend and she said that she and some colleagues had been shown a presentation by local governement which hinted that the site was earmarked to be a Tesco Express - the condition that the frontage would not be demolished/changed due to its historic status.

I'm not sure how true that is, but I trust her anyway!

The people who own the Rye in Peckham own the Mansion. I don't think they own the Dartmouth Arms.. not that this really helps.

Somerfield and Iceland won't be very happy if we get a Tesco Express. Not really necessary either. We already have 4 (albeit small) supermarkets in WN after all.

Won't a Tesco Express be banned under monopoly rules as there is already one in Rosendale Rd?

No, both stores would be exempt as they are under the square footage threshold.

My guess is that it will be a Harvester

It would seem tha Val shawcross has it on her hit list as a possible site for a new fire station. Pity she did not stop the listing on the old fire station as jack stamps is in a conservation area. I am amased she did not know this as she lives near by up the hill. However i don't think will move very far as an idea

Hi all. I'm new to the forum, so I hope I'm posting this in the right section.

I've heard a rumour that J D Wetherspoon are opening a new place in the old Jack Stamps (formerley the Thurlow Arms) on Norwood Road.

Has anyone else heard this rumour and does anyone know if it's true? Will it be a good or bad thing for the area? What do you think?

Not sure what to think about Weatherspoons. It would be good to have something there but every Weatherspoons I have ever been in seem pretty generic and lacking in character

Not heard this rumour, but given that the place has been empty for well on nigh three years it would just be a relief to get it back to working order.

Does anyone else think it would be a bit of a shame to lose the flower stall, tho', which does at least provide a bit of colour. Hopefully the two could co-exist.

And whilst a Wetherspoons would undoubtedly attract the old folk and serial drinkers, it would at least be a decent use of a fine old building. Not as good as a sympathetic but modern gastro-type pub, but better than where we are

Although a really nice gastropub selling inventive food (no generic fish finger sandwiches with lime mayo please!) would be wonderful, I think a Wetherspoon's would be a much more realistic and likely to succeed venture.I really don't think people are prepared to pay gastropub prices in West Norwood. But ever the pessimist, I am nto going to hold my breath for either outcome. More likely to be converted into flats, council permitting?

Incidentally, they could have made a mint charging people to park in the carpark, over the last few years, whilst waiting to sell it.

I heard a rumour ages ago that the stall has some sort of 'ownership' over the area at the front of the pub which meant that the Jack Stamps lot couldn't use the front - Not sure how, why or where I heard it but that could be a reason why the place has stood empty for so long

rumour mill rumbles on: haven't heard anything about Jack Stamps but had heard that Tesco had been enquiring about the lease to the block of shops that includes Greggs and the Fishmonger - even going as far as making suggested offers for lease buy-outs.

I for one would be unhappy for the fishmongers to go, not that I use it much but I've heard its good and independent retailers are becoming a rare commodity.

The same (totally untested) source also said that all-bar one had made an application for a retail space being built as part of the key housing development at the bottom of elm court road a little down from the fire station.

Welcome to VN Herefordianaccent. I'm afraid I must take issue though with your comments.



If you never use it, you can hardly complain when it goes. If you've heard it's good, why don't you go there yourself? The reason independent retailers are 'becoming a rare commodity' is because people romanticise about them and then go and shop in Tesco. A fishmonger needs a customer base in order to make a living and stay open.

A propos coverting Jack Stamps into flats, I believe (although I can't remember on what authority - maybe an earlier discussion here) that planning conditions mean that it has to retain some retail function, which means that the ground floor has to remain a pub or shop.

Years ago, Tesco was said to be interested in the Brooks Laundry site (around the back of B&Q). I guess buying up the parade of shops containing Greggs would fit with that, as it would enable them to amass a bigger site and potentially have a bigger store. I heard some time ago that B&Q was scheduled to close, but haven't heard anything about what will replace it.

Whether West Norwood wants or needs another supermarket has been a contentious issue for the decade that I've lived here. On balance, I think we do. It's my belief that we need a 'destination store', ie one that will bring people to shop on the high street. Our existing small supermarkets don't seem to do that. I'm not convinced that a Tesco (or any other bigger supermarket) would kill off the smaller shops. If all I wanted was a newspaper, I would go to the newsagent, not to a supermarket where I'd have to queue behind people buying a week's worth of groceries. The best of our local shops, like Strowgers , would (I think) survive competition from a larger supermarket - after all, they're already surviving competition from 3 supermarkets - because they offer a personal and knowledgeable service (try asking for DIY advice in B&Q!) and have a specialised stock that isn't available elsewhere.

And, as Gekko, says, we all have to take responsibility for where we shop. It's no good lamenting the passing of small independent shops if we buy everything from the huge supermarket chains.

A little harsh, Gekko. Somebody could have perfectly legitimate reasons for not using a fishmongers much - don't like fish, too expensive etc etc - but not wish to see the amenity vanish for the sake of the wider community and those that do.

There may be other reasons behind it, although I think it would be usual to clarify these within the context of the message.

It seemed to me that, although forthright, Gekko's broad point was very fair.

Leaving aside the reasons why any one person might or might not use any particular shop, I think it is right, as Gekko says, that we all tend to wax lyrical about having a butcher, a baker and a candlestick maker on any high street, when in fact most of us buy all our meat, bread and aromatherapy candles from the supermarket (and have probably driven in our cars to get there). I'm guilty of that too. It takes a lot of willpower not to fill the supermarket trolley with stuff that could be bought from local shops and, for some things, it might be a question of economics. Because they don't have the massive buying power of the big chains and don't discount loss leaders, smaller local shops can often be more expensive and not everyone can afford to pay more to shop locally.

At least West Norwood still has all three... the candlestick maker is just opposite Travis Perkins in Norwood High Street.

although I have never seen it open...

Even during the day mid-week.

Yep - Mr Smith says the flower stall has been there all his lifetime (since 1940s) so they must have some rights to the land.

Yep, and don't forget L'Arche's other shop next to the cemetery, where they also sell hand-made cards and garden ornaments. The shop opposite Travis Perkins does seem to have unpredictable opening hours, but the one by the cemetery is open (I think) 10 to 4 Monday to Friday and they have a good selection of candles there too. It's such a great enterprise and I do try to make sure that I don't buy candles or cards anywhere else!

Thanks for the warm welcome! actually i shop at Lidl due to financial constraints but that doesnt stop me wanting to keep an amenity that others tell me offers a good service.

Hi herefordianaccent,

I've PM'd you about this as the thread is about Jack Stamps really and I think we've got a bit off-topic.

Thanks,

Mel

Hi all -

Re; The L'Arche Shops (opposite travis perkins) it's open Monday to Friday 9-4 closed between 12.30 and 1.30 - it's a working shop for people with learning disabilities - so closes during lunch so they can have their lunch and care assistants can be present to support them. The shop next to the library is the same deal. They will close 28 July to 21 August for summer holidays. They do good work! I have a vested interest - I used to work in one of them!

There is something afoot in Jack Stamps. They appear to have removed the roof of that back part of the pub. Not sure exactly what's going on - my husband is tall enough to look over the wall, but I am not!

Going past on the bus this morning, it looks as tho' scaffolding is holding up much of the inside. Is this a positive sign that something is finally happening or an indication that the place is falling down through neglect ?!

Hi - I am new to the forum and have been reading with interest.
My husband and I have been thinking about moving to the area but have been worried about the high st and lack of anywhere nice to eat/ have a coffee.
There were some men working at Jack stamps so we asked them what it will be and they said a Tescos.

This will be good for the area - but it doesnt look like much else will change soon! Its a shame as there seems to be a huge demand for it. Why did Blairs go out of business?

So Jack Stamps is going to become a Tesco's? And the builders actually told you this? What a shame I am sure there are plently of other places they could have used. That means that a large attractive pub on the high street to bring a bit of vibrance to the area will now probably never happen as there will nowhere for it to go. Unless someone wants to do a Mansion/White Hart style makeover on the now closed pub on Norwood High Street, near the railway bridge (I can't remember what it is called.... the Gipsy Something?) and even that is a bit out of the way.

Re Blair's, I don't know why it closed but I can guess - not the best of locations i.e. not on the main drag of Norwood Road, and not open in the evenings or until late mornings at the weekends.

The owner did have a baby so maybe that influenced her decision too.

I have mixed feelings about a Tescos. The co-op site would have made so much more sense if they are going to come to WN. A good pub would have been excellent, but a less than good one might have precipitated some of the after pub behaviour people have reported happening in CP.

But at least something is being done. Can we trust the workmen?!

Wonders could be done with the White Hart or Tulse Hill Tavern but only at the expense of its current customers.

Bosie, I agree. Although Tesco's is a welcome addition to Wet Nowhere, assuming the builders weren't telling porkies, its ashame that they would relocate to the perfect pub venue. WN desperately needs a decent pub and I have to treck out of the area to the Mansion, The Railway/Lancasters or the Rosendale if I fancy a pleasant place to go for a drink. It's a pity the Co-op didn't close sooner as Tesco's could have taken the larger space there. If Tesco's do move in then it begs the question as to what will happen to the temporary flower shop.

PS The pub on Norwood High Street was the Gipsy Queen.

Wet Nowhere - I have not heard that one before, it made me laugh!

Yes what a perfect site the Co-op would have been. Then there could have been a decent pub and a supermarket nearby. It's not likely that the Co-op would be turned into a pub and no other supermarket is likely to open if Tesco's is so that means that the Co-op site may lay empty for a while as it is going to need quite a big retailer to operate from the site.

Maybe Argos will open and bring a bit of class to the area. Ha ha.......... Sorry being a snob (slapping my wrists now).

I think I'll have to take out a Trademark on the Wet Nowhere catchphrase. I derived it after reading the "I live in West Nowhere...." article in the Telegraph in May 2006. IT seems strangely appropriate on soggy winter days like this....

If it's confirmed, I think it's disappointing (altho' somewhat predictable) that Jack Stamps is becoming a Tesco's.
WN is not lacking in supermarket's even with the closure of the Co-Op. What is lacking is decent places to eat or drink. There's a Tesco Metro within walking distance. So in terms of the whole "consumer choice" mantra it makes little sense.

BTW does anybody know why Jack Stamps shut? And how many years has it been? Last time I went there was after my sisters wedding and that was in 2001 but I know it shut more recently than that...

The Gypsy Queen, I expect, will become housing.