I am pleased to announce the official launch of Virtual Norwood Wiki.

http://wiki.virtualnorwood.com/

Virtual Norwood has always described itself as a local community web site. However, when we launched our web site in 1998 the way in which the web worked was substantially different from the way it works today. It is only with recent advances in web design that we can hope to see our vision realised.

The term "wiki" was recently added to the Online Oxford Dictionary. It means a type of web page designed so its contents can be edited by anyone who accesses it. The best known example is Wikipedia. However, web sites that have embraced the wiki phenomenon haven't always been successful. In June 2005 the LA Times pulled out of its wiki development due to widespread vandalism of its content. So we are going to take things one step at a time...

Our aim is to convert the majority of our existing web pages into the Wiki format and then allow our members to update and improve upon them. To ensure our transition to the Wiki format is as smooth as possible we have been working on things in the background and gradually phasing things in. We upgraded our forum software earlier this year so that we could have a single login system (the first attempts at doing this went horribly wrong). Then we moved onto our very own dedicated web server (read expensive) and we haven't had any downtime since then! Hopefully these aren't my famous last words, However, it is very hard for us to predict the impact of the wiki on our server loads.

We have also added some special extensions to our wiki software that will help us to create really useful information. One of these is the Google Maps extension. It means that with the relative ease of dragging a marker around a Google Map and zooming in or out anyone can create a custom map to illustrate their Wiki article. So for example we could add a Lost and Found page for help with missing pets.

We also know that many people use our web site for researching the area before buying or renting their home here. And we know that everyone knows something about their local area. So rather than reading the same old tired and cliched reviews of the "general area" we thought it would be a good idea to go on a street by street level. What can you tell us about the street you live in? I'm sure you can give a far better account than somebody walking past with a clipboard every couple of years! Even if you can't think of much to say you could have a go at making a map for your street.

But it's not all about streets and property... we want our web site to have lots of cross referencing. So if you are an expert on the history of the Dinosaurs, Pickles and the World Cup or want to describe the activities of a local club or society (Elmo, how about a page on the London Towers?) then you can add a page for that too. We could even have some book reviews if you want to give it a go.

Bear in mind that any comments you add will be kept in our database even after they get updated, so make sure you use that Preview button!

We have upgraded the account privileges for all our sponsors so that you can now edit our Wiki pages. To activate your new privileges you will need to log out of your account and back in again.

When you log into the forum, it will log you into the wiki at the same time, and vice versa.

If you want to discuss a particular page please click on the discussion tab and it will take you into the special forum section we have set aside for the Wiki pages. And if you have any questions or spot any technical gremlins please post them here.

Fingers crossed this all makes sense and works out

James, this is brilliant! I feel proud to be part of a community with its own Wiki! Can't wait to start adding stuff - I like the way it links maps and comments in the forum.

another good tools to hight light the good, bad and the ugly in our area. Could anyone confirm whether it is possible to add information to VN Wiki and if so how?

Brilliant idea - thanks James

Yes, it is possible to add and edit our Wiki pages. We have already upgraded the account privileges for sponsors and to activate them all you need to do is log out of the forum and then back in again. We want to see how things go with the sponsors group before opening it up to all members. If there is an unforeseen technical issue we would rather solve it for 100 people rather than 1000, and we don't want to get rushed off our feet with problems. We hope this initiative brings some added value to our web site that makes sponsorship all the more worthwhile.

One of my other hopes is that expanding the content of our web site using the Wiki will increase the clickthrough rates on our Google Ads. If we can pick up some more revenue that way it will help to reduce our operating losses. I would also hope to scale back some of the advertising in the forum. At the moment 50% of our costs are met by Google Ad income, 25-30% by sponsorship and around 20-25% shortfall made up by myself. The Wiki isn't a money making exercise though... I just feel that intuitively it is the right direction for our site.

I've got to agree, this looks like a brilliant idea.
Looking at the first page it looks like I'll be tempted to write some info about the use of postcodes in our area.

Couple of questions.
How are you going to manage disputes over contents and editing? The nature of forums means some subjects need to be controlled or banned because they keep causing argument or libel. But its going to be hard to bring the same policy to a wiki site. (e.g. CPCA, crime and politics). Where do you think the boundaries will have to be on allowing users to create content? Maybe some topic edits might need be reviewed before going live.

Will you be bringing back the Google Map showing the location of users? It was a nice way to see how the members of the site were spread around around the area

I hope that everyone will do their best to be reasonable. Where possible we are going to follow the Neutral Point of View (NPOV) policies as per the Wikipedia site but we will try and develop clearer guidelines as we go along.

It is worth noting that the discussion tab at the top of each Wiki article will have its own dedicated forum topic. So if anyone wants to discuss issues related to a topic then it is possible to do that via the forum, and keep the wiki page for the finished article.

We worked hard to acheive a unified login system so that it isn't necessary for anyone to re-register with another account... so in many cases we will have a good understanding of who the edits belong to and the good character of that person.

I understand that previewing edits before they go live is a good way to prevent problems with libel. However, the Wiki model works on the basis that 'vandalism' can be reverted and previewing is unsustainable. The database that underpins the Wiki is specifically geared up to manage revisioning in a very efficient manner. We can undo the changes and stop someone from doing it again but ultimately it is based on trust.

I would like to bring back the forum Google Maps system... the existing data is still in our database... however the module is no longer compatible with the forum software. The developer appears to have abandoned support for a new version. I'm continuing to track updates to the source code but it doesn't look promising. Perhaps we could do something similar in our Wiki?

By the way, the reason why I have included postcodes is that they are great ways of finding local information. We can compile our own list of postcodes just by the volume of membership... if you go to the page for the street you live in (or create it) you can ensure that your own postcode is included. Something that everyone can do. This is in the same spirit as some of the web 2 projects thats are taking handheld GPS tracking data and building up open source maps for everyone to use. Our web site copyright isn't open source but we will probably be heading in that direction in a few years time.

I'm pleased to announced that Wiki privileges are now available to all registered members. If you would like to create or edit a Wiki page you will first need to log out of your account, and then back in again. The new editing privileges will then be activated on your account.

Well done to Axean for creating an excellent page for Thicket Road!

n.b. if you want to link to a Wiki page from the forum just put the tag [ wiki ] and [ /wiki ] around the article name (minus the spaces inside the brackets) and remember that Wiki page names are Case SenSITivE.

Visitor levels to our Wiki are gradually increasing and the server loads are holding out. I think things are going well.

I want to expand upon our restaurant and pub listings and would like some help with checking the details. There's nothing more annoying than using a reference source that is out of date, so in the past we have always worked on members suggestions and then followed up with footwork and phone calls to ensure our published details are accurate. However this isn't going to be practical if we push ahead with lots of additions in one go so I'm going to check against other reference sources for places that we haven't listed before and list them on this topic. If you know that a place has closed or changed names please let me know as soon as possible and I can take it out of our guide. Please accept my apologies in advance if I make some bloopers but I can't do all the legwork that I used to.

Proposed Additions. Please let me know if any of these places are no longer open or you want to add one to the list...

Restaurants in Anerley
Mogul (Indian)

Restaurants in Penge
Belash Tandoori (Indian)
Eastern Eye Tandoori (Indian)
Gianping Ma (Chinese)

Restaurants in South Norwood
Jomuna Brasserie (Indian)
New Moon (Chinese)
Pepperton's (Vegetarian)
Sali Tandoori (Indian)
Sitar Tandoori (Indian)
The Gold Coast Bar & Restaurant (African)

Restuarants in Crystal Palace
Shecky's Chicken Shack (Portuguese??)

please add
Tamarind Restaurant in Penge

Shecky's is Caribbean, right?

Thanks Ziwa. By the looks of things Tamarind is at the same address as Eastern Eye Tandoori, so I'm also going to remove the Eastern Eye Tandoori from the list of additions. Can anyone else put forward some names or corrections to this list before I start setting up review topics for them?

I hadn't heard of the Mogul, Anerley. A quick search (Mogul Anerley) finds a Mogul located in Penge.
Mogul Tandoori
17 Penge Lane, London,
SE20 7DU

The VN wiki forum has blank posts appearing from people who don't appear to have done anything to the VNwiki, is that meant to be happen. And if you start a discussion within the VNwiki does create the discussion within the VN wiki forum?

Thanks Axean. We are using the forum to host the discussion pages for the Wiki. This seems to make sense since the forum is geared up to handling discussions and most of us know how it works. However, one of the quirks is that the first person to click on the discussion tab will auto-generate a new topic for the discussion, even if they do not add any comments. This will only happen once. The wiki is configured to use the name of the person who created the wiki page as the topic starter but this setting does not appear to be working yet... it may be fixed in a maintenance release.

Our wiki / forum partnership has now been up and running for over a fortnight without any serious technical issues (touch wood), so I'm now going to start integrating our web pages and redirecting our other web site traffic to the new pages.

Everyone needs to remember... you can start a wiki page and expand upon it later. It is best to get the ball rolling on a new wiki page so that others can contribute. And if you have any queries on the text you are writing you can click on the discussion tab to get some input from other people. You don't need to wait until you have the finished article before submitting your work!

I'm going to cut back on the amount of advertising on the forum. We are going to retain the top right hand corner for Google Ads and special messages, and keep a limited amount within the topic lists and views which will vary by member status. It's a bit of a risky strategy for us to adopt because it could significantly reduce our supporting income but I hope it will make the forum a better place to visit and in the longterm lead to more site sponsors. I will also try and cut back on some of the 'nag' text at the same time.

Most of the work on compiling our list of restaurants has been completed. Thank you for your help. I would like to set up more review topics for pubs. If you have a moment please could you have a look at our wiki page for Pubs and let me know if any of the pubs listed have closed or been renamed. Thanks.

Wiki links are now displayed in green with a link symbol.

e.g. Woodland Hill

A few more improvements:

- the wiki registration page now automatically redirects to the forum registration page

- image uploads enabled for all members - log out and and back in to upgrade your privileges and see Help:Images for more information

- rel="nofollow" links removed site-wide which will also enable page rank benefits for web sites listed in the Directory

We have completed work converting our web pages into the wiki format.

Virtual Norwood Wiki is getting busier and has now served 11,500 pages to 1750 visitors.

We've given every forum member the necessary privileges to edit our wiki pages and I'd like to encourage everyone to have a go. One of the easiest ways to participate is to tell us something about the street you live in. It doesn't have to be a masterpiece - you can update it at a later date - but I'm sure you know more about where you live than we do!

See Help:Editing to find out how to get started

We have updated our Forum Guidelines to include additional information about the forum warning system, quoted replies, crime reporting and wiki membership.

Virtual Norwood Search has been redesigned and now includes Yahoo! and MSN (Windows Live) search facilities:
http://www.virtualnorwood.com/search

Thank you to all our wiki contributors so far - keep up the good work

I don't know if anyone else has spotted this but if you are using the Firefox web browser you can add VN Wiki to your search engine list. When you are on any of the wiki pages click on the icon on the left of the search box (the default is Google) and then you will see the option to add it. I presume this is down to some clever web trickery created by the MediaWiki software that we use to run our wiki (its the one behind Wikipedia too). It could be a handy way of getting to some of our unique local content without navigating through our site.

Cool