From today's Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...ncrystal112.xml

It's a sale leaseback deal. Simon Jordan has been touting this for sometime, although it's interesting to see that he has reduced the price from the £15 million he was originally asking for. Croydon Council are on record as stating that planning permission for redevelopment would never be allowed unless the developer was to find the club a suitable site within or near the Borough. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The club should move back to it's roots and redevelop the NSC. (lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe distance).

i agree with you.... it does make sense to have the football ground re-sited to the CP park where transport links are growing as we speak and the amount of times you always see lost away fans travelling to CP rather than to thornton heath and selhurst.

i would actually like to see them return. After all when the olymic site in the east end opens up, isnt that going to suck up more of the budget / action from the NSC?

I like to have a nice stroll accross the park to see a bit of football

Moving it to CP park would be hell on earth for a great many people who live nearby.

Match days cause horrendous traffic jams around the current site and locals get abused by the away fans - I was called a c*** by some Cardiff City fans while on my way to get a paper.

As someone who lives close to the park, I can assure people that any attempt to move the club into the park will result in a planning battle on a similar scale to the failed Multiplex.

I doubt it. Such a move would of course provide signifcant income for the Park and would obviate the need for chunks of it to be sold of for housing.

It would solve the problem of the park - it wouldn't be a park anymore. The footprint of a new football stadium would be considerably larger than the Athletics stadium. Added to which the park would be policed heavily on match days, and families would desert it.

The main problem I've always seen is with the traffic as it's already too congested around that area on a Saturday. There are times when I return home and can't even drive up my street (which is off Anerley Rd and quite narrow) because of people cutting through. I have a friend who used to live on South Norwood Hill and if she left her car on the drive on matchday, she'd be parked in and if she went out and came back during the football, she wouldn't be able to park her car when she returned. She ended up having to organise her weekends around the bloody football. If it was that bad there, it's going to be a million times worse up near the triangle.

I really can't see how it's workable. I know that it's the 'spiritual home' of Crystal Palace and all that but that was in an age where there weren't so many cars on the road and many people walked to the game.

A move to the NSc has been discussed before

http://www.virtualnorwood.com/forum/index....717&hl=CPFC

My view is that it's impractical on purely size grounds. The NSC holds 16,000 and Selhusrt 28,000 so any move , particularly if premiership football was envisaged , would require a massive redsign and refit of the NSC. That could of course be funded if Selhurst wa sold for development.

My reading of the article though was a sale and leaseback but with "development potential" suggesting that the lease might have break clause in it to allow CPFC to move and the ground developed at a suitable point in the future

It won't happen (unfortunately) as the LDA and Mayors office have decided against it . I concede that match day traffic might be a problem but public transport links are much better than those at Selhusrt Park. A new stadium could be built on the existing NSC footprint and it would secure the financial future of the park. But as I said, it won't happen, so the NSC is set for a slow decline and the park will be slowly nibbled away by housing schemes.

There's pleanty of land in South Croydon. I'm not having the park ruined every other saturday with beered up footie fans... let alone the noise, traffic, etc etc etc.

Been to many matches lately? Your more likely to have trouble from beered up chavs/Rotarians/ or visitors from Beckenham around the Triangle on a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night. Some of us "Footie Fans"are quite pleasnt you know.

Aye - been to a few. City Ground in Notts, Den in Bermondsey, going to see Dartford play in Isthmian League Division One North on Saturday. All have the potential to be unpleasant.

As for Beckenham - I know what it's like, which is why I chose not to live there. I also chose not to live near a football ground.

"Oh mist rolling in from the Trent. My desire, is always to be there Oh City Ground"

Did you go to the Southampton game Fang? I did and it wasn't nice. OK, it's a handful of morons as always, but football does still attract that element. I agree with you though that it would be a better use for the park than losing it to housing. OK, so every fortnight it's out of action for a few hours, but at least it's not flats and it brings in income to the park. Plus the club can point to the fact that it is their original home, though not since 1921 (I believe).

Yep, I was there and at the Bristol match. It's the first time I've seen trouble at SP for a and in the Bristiol case I would put some of the blame on the mixing the away and home fans-not that this is an excuse. My point is that this behavoiur is very rare particularly compared to what happens around the Triangle during most week ends.

I would not be happy if my beloved team decided to move in next door to me if I lived there. Football matches cause disruption for hours before and after a game. And a good chunk are not nice gentile folk unfortunately. The future is out of town I'm afraid - the park it isn't.

Well like I said, it's not going to happen. But I do enjoy the reactions of some people here whenever it is suggested.

The future of CPFC lies in South Croydon near the M25... easy to get to, lots of land. Everton are doing it with Kirby, CPFC could do it at Westerham!!

Where in South Croydon? Westerham! Why not Sevenoaks? Or Hastings. After all Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes. No, this is a local club for local people, There will be no moving here.

Went to southampton game as well as Ipswich game its like we never had the 15 match run.

Agreed CPFC has outgrown selhurst you only need 15000 people to attend & it sends the local area & parking into chaos for miles around for ages.

Not sure on alternative venue but not on my door step thank you.

Dazza

Mitcham Common, Purley, Coulsdon, Warlingham... but not in a built up area in the middle of Crystal Palace with inadequate infrastructure.

Mitcham Common? Where in Purley? Where in Coulsdon? Where in Warlingham? There's more to this than just spouting a list of districts, none of which have a suitable site. As for infrastructure, the facts are that public transport links to the NSC are much better than those to Selhurst Park. The NSC could be redeveloped as a stadium within its existing footprint . On site car parking would be available. The Triangle would become a 'destination' (It's not at present) and pubs bars and restaurants would benefit. It would not be in a built up area. It would be in a Park.

How about tearing down central hill estate & moving the ground there !

Dazza

I'm no town planner! You'll be asking me to design the road appraches next! The point is that there's land and space available elsewhere. CP park is not an option as there's no way to deal with the traffic levels it would generate.

As for pubs and bars doing well, I've never considered the areas around selhurst, the new den or the valley as gastronomic hotspots!

heres an idea - seeing as the Olympic site is going to be scaled down to something like a 28k seater after the couple of weeks of egg and spoon races - why not give the NSC a lick of paint - bang in a few more seats round the bends - and use that for the games then hand it over to CPFC at the end - this will then have the added benefit of removing the East London connection - so the trains will still take us to funky central London rather than some business park in Stratford - mind you what would we do with the few billion quid saved?

Dohhhh - I didnt think it through properly!

This has my vote

Doesn't need tearing down, much of it looks on the verge of falling down. I walked past it on Central Hill the other day and there seems to have been a fire in some of the flats. There was a cordon around the area.

BBC Sport Story



Hopefully they'll stay put for a while as opposed to ruining our park.

I was hoping they'd move to the sports stadium... save me having to walk to Selhurst from Sydenham. Would've been good to see how the Bridge House coped every other Saturday with a no football shirt policy too.

So was I. Would have been good for palace to move back to their spiritual home. Just a shame that some of the NIMBYS around here would probably set themselves alight at the merest suggestion of a a football club in their precious park.

Yep, much better to sell of chunks of the Park for Luxury housing development. Much better to allow the stadium to fall down through lack of use. Much better to build a shabby pastiche of the Crystal palace on the top site and fill it with fast food franchises. Remind me again, who are you speaking for when you say "Our" park.

what possible problem would the 'beagles' relocating to the park be? Local team for local people. 'disruption' for only 9 months per year and every other week for that time for a couple of hours a time . as fang said, what would you prefer? houses? fast food outlets? (cos we really have a shortage of those for sure!) . If anything CPFC relocating here would be with benefit not detriment in my book. I wish people would get off their high horses about football clubs/fans etc. The sports stadium (post olympics) will be virtually redundant althetics wise as our national stadium (which itself is an embarrasment to the country). Lets at least put it to a good local use and move CP out of Norwood. Why not let them in to build a 'community' stadium on the site that would provide better facilities than there at present...attracting more than the usual Peter Pan on Ice etc at the site.......more concerts etc, with a no doubt half decent 30000 capacity venue, that we all know the AAA or whatver would not invest in.

Beagles in!

I have to agree with the last few posts. A football game for a couple of hours every 2 weeks for 9 months a year (and not during summer) or bits of the park sold off to build flats and fast food franchises. I prefer the former every time. Unless there is a better suggestion of course (and I'm all ears)?

Poor infrastructure for cars, potential for ongoing development around the stadium, not being able to drive anywhere every two weeks.... so no thanks!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ace/7352297.stm

Rules out the park then... move the Glaziers to South Croydon near the M25.

Nowhere available in South Croydon, Westerham, Redhill, Mitcham, Sanderstead, Ulam Batur or any of the other places you have helpfully suggested. How big is your garden?

Oh, and your comments about poor infrastructure for cars applies to any other proposal for the park, which is why we should all (even you), be using the excellent public transport infrastructure in the area.

Interesting that Mr Jordan says that Croydon is the preferred borough. Shall we play spot the gaps?
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G...amp;A=Y&Z=5

And no other proposal will bring 20k-30k people (or even more) every two weeks for 9 months of the year to the park.

Wouldnt be happy for the Palace team to move to the sports ground purely for personal reasons but selhurst park has been out grown now. Why oh why did CPFC sell the land to Sainsburys !

They need to move but where ? Crystal Palce might move to a borough where there wanted a bit like Wimbledon if no one agrees !

Dazza

I seriously hope that we won't get the Football Club in the Park ..... argh! a bunch of drunken hooligans hanging around in the triangle? no thanks ...

Not all football fans are hooligans, and it may bring more trade to the pubs and restaurants in the area. Surely thats a good thing?

spoken like a true NIMBY there LSPE!!

As iclipper has just said, football fans are not all hooligans you know. When was the last time you heard of South Norwood being trashed after a palace game? (though some would argue you wouldnt be able to tell the difference!) As said, would be great trade for the bars and restaurants.

I lived near a stadium for all my life and stopped going to watch footie since the 80s + I often take the train surrounde by Millwall supporters (on match days) and I am not confident I wanna see that in the area where I live ... my judgment is based on experience (I agree not everyone is a drunken hooligan of course) - though I would not mind a Rugby team to be based in the area ... much calmer and more civil crowds ...

I love going to the football etc, but I wouldn't want a team on my door step.

Definitely agree, not all fans are hooligans...

but the mess left behind, the chaos on the roads/transport, and the occasional "lariness" in my lovely local pubs when i fancy an afternoon pint / lunch with the lady, are definitely not wanted!

On the other hand, we do need something there to help boost trade...a palace perhaps

Surely that gives the no-custom-on-matchday problem to South Norwood's cafes and pubs, which I think benefit hugely from having the ground so close, far more than they are disadvantaged by any trouble because that's rare.

Really? And how many people do you think (over 7 days per week) are going to be needed to make a 'New Palace' on the top site a success? As for 'spot the gap', Croydon Council have said there are no suitable sites for a new stadium in the Borough. Bromley, on the other hand, were not dismissive about the Idea of Palace moving back to the park. But the LDA has said no to the proposal so that's that. Consequently, we can look forward to the Park being slowly nibbled away over the years with an 'Executive' housing development here and a grotty pastiche of the original Palace there. The Triangle will remain a large traffic roundabout and become even less of a destination than at present. Eventually, even the bars and eateries will decide that Upper Norwood isn't worth the effort. By then however It won't matter, because those Hampstead and Highgate wannabes who post comments about drunken football hooligans, will by then have moved down to the Coast or the West Country.

Doesn't mean it's true; it just means they don't want to know and are unwilling to engage. However, Jordan says he wants to keep the stadium within the borough. The park is in Bromley so either he needs to get his facts straight or he has something else in mind.

CPFC don't move to park > housing takes over park > rebuilding of Crystal Palace > large traffic roundabout > bars/restaurants close down > people move away from CP

I don't see the logic. I think it's a little more complex than that and I don't believe that CPFC moving back to the park is going to be some kind of saviour for all the ills of the area.

Can't believe that you are stamping your feet against intolerance when you quite obviously and quite rudely don't care for anyone else's views or wishes.
As for trying to convince people that football fans are just nice well mannered people, I don't think you help your cause at all. (and that's from someone who was not against the idea.

"those Hampstead and Highgate wannabes" hummm ....

I care for the area I live in and I would love to see it developing into a better area where there is a rise in employment and activities for the young ones (and not only) and where the commerce is stable and profitable - possibly with a decline in the rate of crime.

This (I believe) can be achieved with a long term economic and social development of Upper Norwood and not a quick fix (aka I am not supportive of the LDA plan). I doubt that moving the football club to the stadium in the Park would produce the economic improvements without seeing a deterioration of the security over match days (as I said I am talking because I have experienced that).

If being guilty of caring for the area where I live and planning to live here for a long time labels me as a Hampsted and Highgate wannabe (those who know me well know that I am not that) then stick this lable on my forehead - I will wear it proudly with all the others ... they are just labels!



Apologise if I have offended all the football supporters, clearly this was not my intention, but I have "touched" with hand the violence of the hooligans and for this reason I am not in favour of having them on my doorstep ....

i am with lpse on this one having had the pleasure of getting caught up with leeds fans as i came out of borough market on saturday...not anywhere near please!