Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Phorm
Virtual Norwood > Members and Guests > News and Local Issues
James
I am very concerned about the implications this issue will have.

You should be aware of how this company may affect your online privacy, since it will be capturing data about the web addresses you visit in realtime and selling that data to third parties. Many of the web addresses that get used in your web browser contain personal information such as account ids and usernames and email address, sometimes even passwords.

Even if you checked the box for "do not pass my details to third parties" during signup with your broadband supplier some ISPs have already signed up to sell your data to Phorm without seeking explicit consent.


From http://www.phorm.com/
QUOTE
Leading UK ISPs BT, Virgin Media and TalkTalk, along with advertisers, agencies, publishers and ad networks, work with Phorm to make online advertising more relevant, rewarding and valuable.



From http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/29/ph...nd_isp_targets/
QUOTE
Phorm, the advertising company that wants to pay your ISP to hand over information on which websites you visit, has convinced the UK's three largest providers to trust it, but regulators and the rest of the industry are less impressed.

Phorm's deals already mean it has already snagged more than ten million streams of UK users' browsing information.

Its remaining targets are surely Tiscali, Sky and Orange, who complete the six members of the UK broadband millionaires' club, which controls more than 95 per cent of the market.

Tiscali, which has more than two million broadband customers, told The Register it has looked into Phorm's system, but no decisions have been made.

Meanwhile a spokesman for Sky, the UK's fastest growing broadband network with about 1.2 million lines, said: "Sky is interested in exploring the potential for targeted online advertising and is talking with a number of companies operating in this area.

"Of paramount importance is the online safety of our customers and will only implement a solution when we can use customer data in a responsible way which safeguards privacy."

BT, Virgin Media and Talk Talk argue that Phorm's anonymising techniques will achieve this feat. When discussing Webwise, the consumer brand for Phorm's advertising targeting system, the existing partners all place heavy emphasis on its widely-available and standard anti-phishing features.

Sky and Tiscali both seem keen to gauge consumer reaction to their browsing habits being sold off before committing.

Orange, which occupies the number six spot in the UK broadband league, said: "We're always looking at ways to make the internet experience safer and more relevant for the individual. We have been in discussions with a number of companies - including Phorm - about this very interesting area."

"We are currently evaluating a number of options and continue to evaluate both the customer and business benefits of targeted advertising."

The Information Commissioner's Office learned that the trio of giants had signed on to implement Phorm's ad targeting technology a couple of days before it was announced on Valentine's day. A spokeswoman told The Register today: "We have now met with them [Phorm] and asked for some more information that we're now looking at."

At the smaller end of the ISP scale, where the pressure to compete on super-cheap broadband but then gouge for so-called "incremental" revenues on the side is lower, the reaction to Phorm is more frosty. "We have not spoken to them and we would not speak to them," a Zen Internet spokeswoman said. The firm specialises in business broadband. "Zen Internet will continue to monitor OIX [Open Internet Exchange, Phorm's advertising network] with regards to protecting its customers."

Small outfits such as Zen are unlikely to be a target for Phorm, however. Its system involves it paying ISPs to insert hardware into their networks, so the greater the volume of subscriber browser data they can deliver in exchange, the better.

BT Retail's deal with Phorm does not affect BT's dozens of wholesale ISP customers, including PlusNet, which BT Group owns. A spokesman at the Sheffield-based provider could not be reached today, but product manager Ian Wild told subscribers in its forums: "We'd certainly do an opt-in or opt-out with something like this if we ever did it.

"Just to say again though, I'm pretty neutral from a product manager perspective as long as our customers are happy, and from a personal perspective it's something I might well choose to opt-out of unless the reason not to was very compelling."

Anyone out there compelled by Phorm's "safer, more relevant" internet yet?

We'll have fuller, technical details of how the system works later today.



From http://www.badphorm.co.uk/page.php?2
QUOTE
So, what's all the fuss about?

Simply put, three of the UK's largest ISPs (Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk) have decided to sell your private browsing history to an advertising broker. Yes, the entire list of every web page you visit gets sent to Phorm (the broker) in real time, as you click, so they can send you 'targeted advertising'. Naturally the ISP's are not too keen on telling their users this, they'd much rather feed us all platitudes about how it'll help combat phishing and how the targeted adverts will be so much better than the random ones we see today. In fact, they didn't even announce it to the UK press, we had to find out about it from the New York Times!

Here's what the NYT had to say on the subject of Phorm...

LONDON — For years, Internet service providers have watched with envy as the likes of Google, Yahoo and Microsoft sliced up the online advertising pie. Selling Internet access has been a good business, but selling Web advertising has been an even more lucrative one. Now, three Internet providers in Britain have teamed up to try to obtain a piece of online advertising for themselves. The three companies — BT, Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media — announced a deal last week with a company called Phorm, whose technology tracks Web users and sends them ads related to their interests. .....(snip) The three Internet providers have agreed to give Phorm access to customers’ browsing records, letting it track a Web user’s every move. That way, the Internet exchange can send an ad directly to a select audience anywhere on the Web, rather than hoping that the user lands on a site displaying the ad.
Elmo
Sneaky little S**ts. The wild west of the internet is starting to backfire on us poor users...
mao
Hi!

For those with Firefox browser THIS could be helpful.
James
The BBC have reported on this issue...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7280791.stm

An online petition is now available...
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/

How would you feel if details about the petitions you looked at was obtained a third party?
Sylvester
When I tried to download TrackMeNot a message said "Firefox prevented this site (mrl.nyu.edu) from asking you to install software in your computer".
James
Try this site which points to (the same) official Firefox download package...
http://www.trackmenot.org/
James
Talk Talk have just announced that customers will not have their browsing monitored by Phorm unless they choose to opt-in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7289481.stm
Uncle Wilf
How do you find out your internet providers position on Phorm?
James
I use Talk Talk as my broadband provider and when I heard about this issue I called them. I asked them to make a clear record that I did not give my consent to the proposals. After some discussion, and referral through several call handlers I was told it would be noted as an official complaint and passed along to the appropriate manager. I told them I objected to the lack of opt-out, lack of express consent, and lack of prior notification. Several months ago I raised a similar compliant when they started injecting ads into my outgoing email without my consent - fortunately that only happened for a day or two until they stopped.

I would assume that Talk Talk's change of rollout plans, from no-choice to opt-in, is in light of press coverage and complaints like mine.

The best way for broadband customers to deal with this issue is to call your provider. If you object to them selling your web browsing activity to a third party then raise an official complaint. I also recommend signing the online petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/

At the moment the situation is Talk Talk have gone opt-out, BT are doing a trial with new terms and Virgin are sitting on the fence with no clear information about what they are going to do. Regardless of provider you can obfuscate your browsing activity by using TrackMeNot (Firefox addon).
jannism
It would seem that BT, Carphonewarehouse and Virgin Media and their respective subsidiaries are the main exponents.

There's lots more stuff on the subject below - Phorm appear to have begun the charm offensive in earnest:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/07/ph...rgess_ertegrul/
http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/blog/p,299/
http://www.clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3628654

I've just discovered that my ISP - Nildram - are a subsidiary of Tiscali *spit* so I'm going to bite the price bullet and go back to Zen...
jannism
It seems Trend Micro have deemed Phorm adware...
James
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7283333.stm

QUOTE
It's important to understand there are two distinctly separate processes in the Phorm system: data capture and ad serving. The data capture system only stores one item of information on your computer -- a random number. The random number is the only thing that distinguishes your browser from the millions of others on the internet. It does not contain any information about you or your computer. The only person able to make that connection is you, as you have that cookie in your browser.


Hmm, let me see. Here is a random number 135792. I'm going to assign this random number to the activities of Jack's Computer and use it to record everything he does. Here is another random number 482756. I'm going to assign this random number to the activities of Bill's Computer and use it to record everything he does. Okay, now I'm doing something with that data... I'm going to process information about (random number) 135792. Can you guess who I am referring to? Is there any doubt who I am referring to?

The whole issue of having a random number is irrelevant once that number is assigned to something.
Axean
I just checked my ISP Be* (also known as Be Unlimited). They are not and have no plans to be part of the Phorm thing. Which is good, because there aren't many ISP's around that allow unlimited downloads and don't throttle.

So it appears there is even more information needed when choosing an ISP. I'll bet the ISP's will use misleading language to hide Phorm style activities in the same way they mislead about unlimited downloads and speeds.

I've just seen another firefox addon has appeared to deal with phorm. But I'd recomend hear a bit more about it before installing it
http://www.dephormation.org.uk/
James
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/14/ph...classification/

Kaspersky Lab, whose anti-virus engine is licensed to many other security vendors, said it would detect the cookie as adware.
James
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7299875.stm

Web creator rejects net tracking

The creator of the web has said consumers need to be protected against systems which can track their activity on the internet. Sir Tim Berners-Lee told BBC News he would change his internet provider if it introduced such a system. Sir Tim said his data and web history belonged to him. He said: "It's mine - you can't have it. If you want to use it for something, then you have to negotiate with me. I have to agree, I have to understand what I'm getting in return." Sir Tim added: "I myself feel that it is very important that my ISP supplies internet to my house like the water company supplies water to my house. It supplies connectivity with no strings attached. My ISP doesn't control which websites I go to, it doesn't monitor which websites I go to."
jannism
The Foundation for Information Policy Research (Fipr) say Phorm is Illegal in the UK
James
The Open Rights Group has commented on a meeting with they had with Phorm and the Foundation for Information Policy Research (FIPR)

"the Phorm issue is far more likely to be decided upon in the court of public opinion than in a court of law"


http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2008/03/28/...eet-with-phorm/
James
The Information Commissioner Office (ICO) has made a statement on Phorm, They said European laws demand that users must consent to their traffic data being used for "value added services". The ICO wrote: "This strongly supports the view that Phorm products will have to operate on an opt in basis to use traffic data as part of the process of returning relevant targeted marketing to internet users." Nicholas Bohm, general counsel for the Foundation for Information Policy Research, said the FIPR was not satisfied with the ICO response on interception. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7339263.stm

BT and Phorm's secret and allegedly illegal trials without consent conducted in 2006 and 2007 are subject to investigation under DPA. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/09/ico_phorm_tougher/

Phorm have also be forced to make a public apology for self-editing their Wikipedia entry. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/08/ph...sors_wikipedia/
James
The investigation into BT's allegedly illegal trials is now bouncing between different government departments. Their trials affected thousands of BT customers and may have compromised the security of some e-commerce sites. Comments on this report by The Register - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/17/ripa_phorm_shambles/ - suggest that some hosting providers are now writing to their customers (e-commerce businesses) informing them to choose between having all BT visitors blocked from using their sites, or accepting liability for potential fraud caused by interception. If this escalates and you are a BT customer you may find that parts of the web will become inaccessible.
Spooks
Thanks to James I have been following the 'phorm' debate with some interest. As my computing knowledge is on a 'turn it off turn it on again' level I struggled to understand the possible implications but the following discription from one of the investigating bodies brought home to me how invasive this phorm could become - 'it is the equivalent of the royal mail opening all my post so that it can send me a better class of junk-mail'

'track-me-not' is now up and running.
James
Apart from the actions of the interception and the possible consequences I think a lot of the concern raised in media reports is due to the non-disclosure of these activities, the lack of action regarding use of legislation intended to protect against such interception, and the background of the company involved. Even if you are persuaded by their charm offensive it is hard to take their word that the system is secure. The greatest concern is if a security lapse on the inteception hardware they have designed allows undesirables to gain unprecedented detail about our web access. Where risk is associated as consumers we should rightfully expect informed opt-in consent before anyone listens in on our communications.
John D
i gather the information commissioner has decided now that ISP must give the opt in clause to this, rather than the automatic"opt in" as before.
Fang
I have read that if you use Safari as you browser, Phorm can't track you because of the way Safari treats 'cookies'. Not sure whether this is true.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.