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#1 Picture Palace Campaign

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    The campaign to restore the cinema in Crystal Palace

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:25 AM

Make your views known to KICC's Trustees this Saturday 11 August 10am – 6pm at their 'Open Day at the Open Door’, 25 Church Road.

Dear Vner's - here's the latest from the Picture Palace Campaign - thank you for all your efforts and support over the past three years. Let's make it count. Best wishes from the Campaign Team.

Team CP – time to dig deep! Make the Campaign count this Saturday
25 Church Road – latest news:

We’re down…
It has to be said: things are not looking great for those of us wanting a cinema at 25 Church Road.

Kingsway International Christian Centre (KICC) will shortly be holding two events to announce its presence and start operating in Crystal Palace:
  • Saturday 25 August - an opening ceremony (‘dedication service’), together with a seminar and exhibition called ‘Connecting businesses in the UK and Africa’.
It is unclear how KICC intends to use 25 Church Road subsequently. It does not have planning permission for a church.

…BUT NOT OUT!
The Picture Palace Campaign (PPC) remains determined to bring a cinema to Crystal Palace, ideally at 25 Church Road. And a leading cinema operator still wants to come to Crystal Palace, and would still be willing to buy 25 Church Road. This strengthens our case for retaining 25 Church Rd as a place of public entertainment (D2 Assembly and Leisure Use, in planning terms).

What happened when we and our MPs met KICC's Trustees
The PPC has had several meetings with local MPs Jim Dowd, Tessa Jowell and Malcolm Wicks. We and they have spent a couple of years trying to get round a table with KICC’s trustees and senior management team. They finally accepted and a meeting took place on 11 July. Here’s a summary of what they told us, and our view of it.
  • KICC gave an express undertaking that there would be no religious activities at 25 Church Road under its current planning use.
We say: Nothing has really changed since KICC submitted its original planning application for change of use in August 2009. Far from responding to the community’s expressed desire for an entertainment venue which is open to all and maximises regeneration opportunities, it seems to us that KICC’s long-term objective is to replicate the religious worship and instruction activities conducted at its Walthamstow church and other venues across London.
  • KICC said it had produced a business plan and intended to hire out the building for conferences and ‘community’ space.
We say: The hireable community space would not provide anything in addition to the facilities already available in the area. In any case, conferences do not fall within the D2 use class.
  • KICC stressed that many of its proposed activities – including a Saturday Cinema Club, zumba and keep-fit classes, business seminars, counselling, and work with schools – would fall into the D2 category. It has already installed a single-screen cinema for showing family-friendly films on a conditional basis (that is subject to KICC’s approval).
We say: The ‘family cinema’ is a poor substitute for a professionally run and programmed cinema. And while KICC assures us that its other proposed activities are legitimately ‘D2’ in nature, it is unable to give us any specific information about them.
  • KICC said it was mindful of the impact of a large group of people coming into Crystal Palace and would be sensitive to our needs and concerns.
We say: Why then is KICC holding a ‘Dedication Service’ and ‘Business Seminar and Exhibition’ (both D1 uses) ‘where over 1,200 attendees are expected to attend’, when its own planning consultant said a more intensive use had “the potential to cause significant noise/disturbance and parking problems in the local area” which would be detrimental to the economic viability and vitality of the town centre.
  • KICC gave a sincere apology for any past failings in their approach to public consultation, saying they wanted to “move forward and correct wrongs, and to positively engage with the Crystal Palace community”. It offered to hold an Open Day to set out its intentions more clearly and transparently.
We say: It is unfortunate that, after three years of no engagement with the wider community about 25 Church Road, KICC has chosen the final Saturday of the Olympics to hold this event.

We know very well the strength of local feeling in favour of a cinema, the positive effect that this would have on jobs and opportunities in the area, and the strong desire to preserve the existing D2 use.

It was very telling that KICC confirmed its ultimate aim is still to secure 25 Church Road as a ‘Place of Worship’ for its Wimbledon congregation, as well as members from across South London, Kent and Surrey. This is why it originally bought the building, and why the change of use was refused.


What we did
Following the meeting with KICC, our legal and planning specialists helped us make a detailed case for D2 enforcement. On 30 July, we sent a nine-page letter to Bromley Council, copied to local ward councillors, expressing our concerns regarding the inappropriate use of the building and the potential loss of our only significant D2 leisure venue.

Now what?
Bromley is considering the issue from all sides. It wants to see its D2 ruling enforced, but it is also obliged to consider KICC’s ‘community’ proposals based on evidence rather than concerns.

That means allowing KICC to go ahead on the basis it has proposed. If it then turns out to be operating unlawfully, that is, within a religious context or outside the D2 use class, we have a substantial basis on which to object. The MPs have asked us to keep them closely informed.


What we can do?
Our focus remains on a ‘Cinema for Crystal Palace’. It is not for us to comment on KICC as an organisation.

So the next stage of the campaign is to monitor very closely how 25 Church Road is going to be used. That’s why we’ll be attending KICC’s Open Day this Saturday, 11 August. We hope you’ll take this opportunity too, and give us your feedback. You can contact us at 'admin@picture-palace.org' or 'picturepalacecampaign@gmail.com'

We would also encourage you to make your ward councillors and MPs aware of your views. Thank you for your continuing support.


We are a community campaign. Your continued support and views are important to us - we really appreciate them! Please check out our website: www.campaign.picture-palace.org and facebook page: Picture Palace Campaign (return a cinema to Crystal Palace)

#2 Retired Member 1

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:29 AM

nice one
Gipsy Hill Rocks!!!

#3 RetiredMember2

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 11:04 AM

nice one


Ditto!

Here's a few questions I'm hoping to put to Trustees on Saturday - please feel free to use and expand upon or tell me how rubbish they are:

1)Why did KICC a charitable organisation invest it's funds in a building that it was not alllowed to use for it's intended purpose - a church?

2)What are the long term intentions for use of 25 CR?

3)Who are the target audience?

4)How large is the user catchment area?

5)What events are going to be operating from 25 CR?

6)How do those events comply with KICC's charitable status?

7)How do those events comply with planning policy?

8)What is the capacity of the building?

9)Does it have an entertainment licence?

10)What is the travel plan?

11)The fire escape is large and nosiy when used is this going to be part of regular access and egress for patrons?

12)The passageway at the rear is shared with existing residents and is not for general public use - do KICC intend to use it as a mini bus shuttle route?

13)(If Yes) Is KICC aware that such use will interfere with the rights of residents to peaceful enjoyment of their homes?

14)Where are KICC advising patrons to park - shoopers carpark, residential roads or CPP?

15)The impact of hosting large scale events in a building without parking will have a hugely damaging effect on the surrounding neighbourhood and town centre economy - how does this sit with the charity's claim to be a good neighbour?

16)How can KICC ameliorate the impact of the traffic and parking demand it will bring to the area?

17)If businesses suffer as a direct result of KICC's operation will KICC compensate them?

18) Does KICC have an interest in or own any other proerties in the area?

#4 Retired Member 1

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:45 PM

1) They might have done it as investment as they might find that income from donations is dropping so they buy properties and rent out all/part of it to generate cash. Above all after the credit crunch several charities did this. I do not know if it is the case here - however it could be a reason why they invested. Also I am not aware if they have any tax relief as charity.

6) as point one - it might not be strictly related to it

The most important thing for us is to keep on lobbying to get the cinema out of that place which will be more useful for the community and with beneficial impact for the surrounding shops above all on Church Road
Gipsy Hill Rocks!!!

#5 Posie

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:44 PM

If I may make a suggestion, could not those that are able to get to this 'event' take a copy of Citizen M's well thought out question's (or any alternatives that the ppc may wish to proffer) and corner the available trustee's on the day, making notes of the answers they give? This to me seems a perfectly legal and fair thing to do, it will also have quite an impact on said trustees I would have thought. I cannot see that asking all of the above will be seen as anything but proper conduct of those people who live work and play in the Crystal Palace area. Just hope everyone won't mind queing for a while!

#6 Norwood lad

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:33 PM

Some more questions to put to the Trustees this Saturday

1)Why have you spent a lot of money for the interior of 25Chruch Rd to be an almost exact copy of the interior of your place of Worship in Walthanstow ?

2)Why are you advertising a conference for over a 1,200 when surely you should know, having had your original application refused, that even the 600 capacity you were trying to get permission for was considered far too much and this was recognised by the planning department that amount would cause immense disruption and harm to the parking, trade and traffic in the area.

3) Why, if you say you are doing things by the book and wanting to engage with the local community are you then advertising a conference event in a building where Conference (D1) use is unlawful?

4)As you have stated before you have very little if any congregation in the Crystal Palace area, why then do you feel the need to deny the vast majority of local residents and businesses the only D2 building in the area a proper use to be enjoyed by all by using it as a base for your congregation from SW London and beyond with the ultimate aim of running D1 religious services from the building.

#7 charlie

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:01 PM

If I may make a suggestion, could not those that are able to get to this 'event' take a copy of Citizen M's well thought out question's (or any alternatives that the ppc may wish to proffer) and corner the available trustee's on the day, making notes of the answers they give? This to me seems a perfectly legal and fair thing to do, it will also have quite an impact on said trustees I would have thought. I cannot see that asking all of the above will be seen as anything but proper conduct of those people who live work and play in the Crystal Palace area. Just hope everyone won't mind queing for a while!


Great idea Posie :) I think everyone should go along if they can and do whatever they feel comfortable with. I am sure that would be the PPC's advice. ;)

Good questions from Citizen M and Norwood Lad.

KICC have said they are going to open 25 Church Road for use by the community and they want the community to see it for themselves, so this is a great opportunity to ask them what they mean by this.

The PPC is going to do a very quick survey on the day to get people's views, if we can find enough volunteers to cover.

We are also hoping to post a link and QRBarcode to the survey on line via Surveymonkey for people to complete at their leisure at home or whilst having a drink/something to eat in the Triangle if they don't want to hang around to talk after.

We're putting together a flyer with details as I write which we'll be handing out around the Triangle tomorrow and on the day outside 25 Church Road.

Really hope people can find the time to go along and give the Campaign some feedback please.

Edited by charlie, 09 August 2012 - 05:02 PM.


#8 Ziwa

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:02 PM

Could we get a representative of the rainbow brigade, someone from the LBGT community, to ask about using the hall? ;)

#9 Retired Member 1

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:38 PM

DON'T TEMPT ME ...... could get together the cast of BEAR CITY 2 for a Premiere in Crystal Palace LOL

On a serious note, I thought about that ... but ditched the idea .... would not be beneficial for the cause

Edited by LSPE, 09 August 2012 - 08:41 PM.

Gipsy Hill Rocks!!!

#10 Ziwa

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:03 PM

I was hoping you'd reply LSPE! Good to have you back on the forum. Power to the rainbow.

#11 Retired Member 1

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:20 PM

ha ha ha ha ..... just wait when I get to full speed .... looking forward to the cinema in CP btw .... positive thinking here ....
Gipsy Hill Rocks!!!





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