177 replies to this topic

[Posie]

In answer to LSPE regarding the amount of kicc supporters or people who wanted to find out about the church in order to join the flock this is my impression....

I was present for around an hour, most of this was outside, as after seeing how rude this man was when ushering in the three or four ladies of the congregration I decided to stay and help hand out leaflets for the ppc, everyone I spoke to said the same, that they thought the situation was bad, sad, disgusting, terrible, awful, plus a few more less favourable quotes were used, not one person spoke in their favour, and in that space only a couple of people refused (politely) a leaflet as they rushed by.

It is clear to me that this was only a half hearted attempt at being open and transparent for the community around Crystal Palace, they really do not want us there at all.

[Retired Member 1]

That says it all. They don't like to be questioned .... not the first time. so what's next!?

[Posie]

I noticed during Citizen M's conversation with the kicc rep he stated a local business is to provide catering for the 25th, I wonder who that would be......
'hand wash hand, make hand clean' as I said in another thread concerning the kicc ........

[charlie]

Still shell shocked!

I had the good fortune to meet KICC's planning consultant - Mr Edward Oteng. Funny - why on earth did KICC have a planning consultant at the 'Open Day' for the Crystal Palace community.

He interrupted my conversation with the leader of KICC SW Pastor Dipo and said that he was a "Planning Inspector" of two jurisdictions ( or something like that) and he knew what he was talking about!

I didn't want to get into the ins and outs of planning law, so I suggested that I would be interested in continuing the conversation another time and could I have his business card please? He didn't have one, so I asked for his name and details. This did not go down too well - he refused to give them to me saying that I could give him my name. At this point, I put my foot down and demanded his name (very unlike me) - he still seemed reticent, but as he was standing next to the the Leader of the church, I think he realised that it would be a bit churlish not to give it to me.

I overheard Mr Oteng talking to another couple of visitors - sorry for not coming over - but I could not stomach any more ********.

Mr Oteng, I understand, from some correspondence I received last week from a friend, has been written to by Bromley council advising that the 'event' on 25 August "does not appear to be a lawful use of the building. Officers are monitoring the use of the building and should regular unlawful use of the building occur then I anticipate that we will commence enforcement action."

Why on earth is the Chamber of Commerce supporting this - or is this just more exaggerated spin from KICC??

I came away from the Open Day feeling even more determined to fight for the lawful D2 use of the building - somehow we need to get all the traders back on board and behind an inclusive lesiure/entertainment use which will benefit all of us.

Edited by charlie, 12 August 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[thekraken]

I noticed during Citizen M's conversation with the kicc rep he stated a local business is to provide catering for the 25th, I wonder who that would be......
'hand wash hand, make hand clean' as I said in another thread concerning the kicc ........

Possibly the eatery with the KICC leaflets in their window?

[Summit Lover]

Possibly the eatery with the KICC leaflets in their window?

Which eatery is that?

[Nanazola]

Excellent work Charlie, CitM, Andreas, Posie, Ziwa and any others who were there, fighting on behalf of their community. Never in the field of community campaigning has so much been owed by so many to so few! I felt on edge just looking round, and from what you've said that was justified by the intimidating behaviour of the KICC people there. So much for community engagement. Do the Trustees really know what they've got involved with, I wonder.

[Posie]

Nanazola on looking through the trustees names on the charity commision website it would seem that they are for the most part inextricably linked to the other arms of the kicc, so I would hasten a guess at yes they certainly know what they are involved with.

[ChristineT]

Well I've been to the odd Open Day, but none as odd as this one! As has been stated above, the only indication that the building was open to the public were the leafletting cinema campaign volunteers - well done! Did any political representatives turn up, does anyone know?

[RetiredMember2]

Upper Norwood and South Norwood Ward Councillors, Pat Ryan and Wayne Lawler, attended and left very concerned about the proposed unlawful usage, the annexing of CPP for an unofficial car parking facility and the alleged support of the CoC.

I had the good fortune to meet KICC's planning consultant - Mr Edward Oteng. Funny - why on earth did KICC have a planning consultant at the 'Open Day' for the Crystal Palace community.

He interrupted my conversation with the leader of KICC SW Pastor Dipo and said that he was a "Planning Inspector" of two jurisdictions ( or something like that) and he knew what he was talking about!

I didn't want to get into the ins and outs of planning law, so I suggested that I would be interested in continuing the conversation another time and could I have his business card please? He didn't have one, so I asked for his name and details. This did not go down too well - he refused to give them to me saying that I could give him my name. At this point, I put my foot down and demanded his name (very unlike me) - he still seemed reticent, but as he was standing next to the the Leader of the church, I think he realised that it would be a bit churlish not to give it to me.

I overheard Mr Oteng talking to another couple of visitors - sorry for not coming over - but I could not stomach any more ********.

Mr Oteng, I understand, from some correspondence I received last week from a friend, has been written to by Bromley council advising that the 'event' on 25 August "does not appear to be a lawful use of the building. Officers are monitoring the use of the building and should regular unlawful use of the building occur then I anticipate that we will commence enforcement action."

O dear. Bringing in Planning Inspector Extrordinaire Mr Edward Oteng as an ambassador was not the best move. Mr O has been under my radar before:

The first document of this app, it's full of gems. Mr Oteng, KICC's agent, paints a grim picture of the area; dense residential flats, hard urban edge. Mr Oteng goes on to remark that CP "is no suburban idyl" and claims that KICC proposals will soften that edge. That is an offensive and isolated view and not one that the authorities hold, hence the CA status. In other correspondence I have seen Mr Oteng refuses to give details of his client's intended new and intensified uses for 25CR other than to say they will be D2.

Interestingly, a bit of digging revealed that this agent's company has never filed accounts with Companies House and that the website address so proudly proclaimed at the foot of his letter, on every page, is 'not of this world'. Well Google certainly has never heard of it, and the domain name system in the UK, governed by Nominet (for .co.uk domains), hasn't either. "No match for "developmentplanningconsultancy.co.uk". This domain name has not been registered. Hmmm, not suprising that the agent's submission is also misleading and inaccurate.

Mr Edward Oteng and Planning Development Consultancy, 2a Talgarth Walk London NW9 7HW are still not registered with Companies House and still no record of any accounts been filed under that name - despite the company submitting multiple planning applications over several years.

Curious and curiouser...

[Posie]

As Sheldon would say...Bazinga!!

[Retired Member 1]

INDEED BAZINGAAAAA!

[Rosehip]

I too visited the Open Day yesterday, around noon.

It was just heart-breaking to see that extraordinary space in the middle of our community unavailable for use by us all.

I asked about rear access to the building and how that would be used. The lady looking after refreshments went to find someone who could answer but came back with a message, saying that she had been told that KICC owned the freehold but that there was right of way for others. When I expressed surprise, she said that we could ask further questions on the 25th as those with the expertise would be there then.
it sounds like the assumption of the KICC is that they can use it as they wish.

[Picture Palace Campaign]

A very big thank you to VN'ers who attended KICC's 'Open Day' on Saturday. It was heartening to see so many of you giving up your time, yet again, to support the Campaign. Special thanks to core Campaign members who helped out on the day too - your input is, as always, invaluable!

If you went along, we would really welcome your feedback and thoughts on the the day.

Please do take part in our survey www.picture-palace.org/survey and we'll publish the results later this week together with our view of the 'Open Day'.

Thank you for you continuing support. Your views are important to us.

[Norwood lad]

Some hazy recollections from the event.

Spoke to what appeared to be the main chap there, the venue was pretty much empty apart from another guy hovering around in the background trying to listen in on the conversation,

What is the capacity?
1,200 was his reply
But your application was refused for 600 so how does that figure?
Words to the effect that it is up to whoever hires the place for an event to get relevant permission but the capacity is 1200 ( it seemed he wanted to deflect what they would use as a capacity and put the onus on the people running events here)

Why is it called open door- because it is open to everyone

Something about concerts and events and how people would go to the local businesses afterwards.
I asked how is the sound system
Very very good ( he seemed as pleased as punch about this)

About a cinema we will show approved family films- nothing that makes people crazy- we have one screen-
Do you have a projector -No but we have steel in the roof and strengthened it for a screen ( or something to this effect, wasn't sure what relevance that had)
There was a pulled down white screen above the stage- Not sure if this was the screen that would be used for the film screenings or not?

We have had talks with CityScreen about running films he said.
But I thought City Screen refused running your 'family films'
No clear answer to that one.
I thought CS had offered to buy the building
His reply , They didn't offer enough to cover our costs ( not sure if he meant the original asking price or the extra work they have done since).

There was serious pieces of audio equipment all over the venue so it seems clear any notion of a cinema Is an afterthought and even a conference event wouldn’t need that amount of kit ( I can’t say I’m a connoisseur of conference events but other than a podium, a dull speaker, microphone and a presentation on a screen I can’t see what else you would need).


The guy did mention something about a weekly tea and biccys event for OAP’s in the area who could read the papers in the upstairs meeting room as some kind of gift from KICC to the community . Quite why OAP’s would want to shift from the library, numerous cafes or Spoons to an upstairs room in 25CR is anyone’s guess and no idea how this will help the local community and be a good use of a £2m investment in a building ……….maybe I should go to investment seminar after all as I might be missing something

So to sum up. They appeared as elusive as ever, lots of talk about running things for the good of the local community and what a good job they have done with the place but when it came down to the specifics they were as vague and cagey as ever, rehashing the same things they have said before and in the case of mentioning City Screen’s involvement in the potential one screen cinema showings they were being a bit dishonest and spreading half-truths (I was under the impression City Screens didn’t want to have anything to do with a cinema with KICC vetted lists of what is deemed suitable to show to the masses. Is this still the case?).


What I did find depressing afterwards was the rest of the triangle was pretty buzzy, the new outside coffee element to bambinos was busy but there were still those stubborn boarded up parts, particularly along Church Rd and couldn’t help but think how much a proper cinema here would top it all off. People popping along to the cinema all day and then going for coffee,beer,meal,shopping before or after a showing would really lift the area which is why I can’t understand why local traders aren’t more vocal on this campaign, most would benefit and it seems those behind the scenes, at least those in the Chamber of Commerce appear to be backing KICC’s vision for the site.