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Queens Hotel extension - planning consultation - link?


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#1 wulfhound

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:36 AM

Saw this on News From Crystal Palace re the Queens Hotel planning application:-

http://newsfromcryst...xtension-plans/

Wondered if anyone had a link to the consultation (yes, I've googled). Wholeheartedly agree re the Church Rd situation, wanted to lodge an objection.

Cheers,
wh.

#2 misspoddy

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:46 PM

You'd hope they would put that money into the existing building and bringing up to standard with a proper restaurant on the top floor (*hands over to Ziwa). CP could really do with a good hotel, rather than this wreck where no one who lives here would want they family to stay when they visit...

#3 RetiredMember1

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:06 PM

Well said, missp!

#4 RetiredMember2

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:17 PM

And as if that's not bad enough, the company that owns the QH, Euro Hotels, has bought 2 Fitzroy gardens, a three bed town house, and turned it into a house of multiple occupation (HMO) that it is being used to house what looks like 16 members of QH staff. Euro Hotels have approached other households in Fitzroy abnd Wakefield Gardens espressing an interest in buying more family homes to convert in this manner.

If you check out 2 Fitzroy Gardens on streetview you';ll see what they've done - without planning permission or approval from fire brigade (all HMOs have to adhere to strict fire regs).

Euro Hotels also runs a number of slum B&Bs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19813291

Also see here http://www.virtualno...l-bb-contracts/

Edited by citizen M, 06 November 2012 - 03:17 PM.


#5 RetiredMember1

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

If you check out 2 Fitzroy Gardens on streetview you';ll see what they've done - without planning permission or approval from fire brigade (all HMOs have to adhere to strict fire regs).


Can't see the exact property - is it the one with two skips outside?

#6 Norwood lad

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:59 PM

Whilst I agree the rooms are pretty dire ( well they were the last time I checked for someone a couple of years) to give them their dues they have slowly been making incremental improvements.

The last couple of years have seen the whole of the building been given a lick of paint, new landscaping and trees and generally spruced up the frontage. They are also planning to replace the cheap and flimsy glazing on the hideous 1970/80’s extension with modern glazing. I have no idea what, if anything they have been doing internally the last couple of years or whether they are planning to.

Perhaps it’s an idea to contact them asking their plans for the hotel. They must have made a fair wad from Team Brasil they could use to invest in the building.

I see loads of European tourists traipsing up and down Church Rd and you see groups of them in the various bars and pubs in the area so on the whole the hotel is good for the town centre. With all the Brazilians and Olympic tourists staying there in the Summer it made the area just that bit more buzzy and colourful and If it wasn’t here the town centre would certainly be at a loss.

I agree the buying up of local property is a big no no and I would hope the ever useless enforcement team at Croydon to come down hard on this if they don’t want another embarrassing story in the papers.

Similarly if there are coaches parking elsewhere you would expect Croydon or whoever to start slapping some fines on the buses and or the hotel.

If Victory place gets planning and is eventually built ( big ask knowing the developers past years of inactive for the site) and the Westow hotel extension goes ahead there will be two half decent hotel options in the area which might make the Queens hotel pull there socks up.

#7 ChewderOde

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:30 PM

Lets not be too tough on them - they bring people into the area by offering accomodation in London at affordable prices - and this gives CP a bit of trade too - theyre at the value end of the market and if an extension makes the operation more viable and saves it from closing and being knocked down into some dowdy development I am happy with it - I like seeing tourists wandering up and down church road!

#8 RetiredMember2

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:54 AM

Chewy your imagination appears to have run away with you again! The QH will not be knocked down if this app to build a further 25 rooms on the only on site coach parking area is refused, the students will still come and go and you will still be able to see them walking through the Triangle. QH still has the remaining 196 rooms to let plus however many other residential homes it has in the area.




#9 ChewderOde

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

I was saying if the extensions makes the overall operation more financially viable I am not in principle against it - the reference to it being knocked down was with regard to the hotel failing as a business and being replaced by some dull residential development - I think its good CP has a sizeable hotel with a look of grandeur to it - if at least only from the outside - and I like the fact that people come from all over the world and stay in CP and hopefully on return say good things about this place

#10 Norwood lad

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:34 AM

You get what you pay for and in the case here it is dirt cheap rooms and what with austerity measures for our Euro chums they prob see it as a bargain, albeit a scuzzy.

It’s a win win for CP as far as I’m concerned, hundreds of tourists pass through the area a week and you would think because the rooms are so awful they can’t wait to get out and frequent the local shops, bars and cafes. They go back across the channel saying the hotel was a bit rubbish but CP was delightful and it was cheap as frites.

Also are they actually building on the car park as from the application it looks like they are just adding a couple of floors to the lower rise end bit and not building anything on the carpark. Is there another application?

#11 RetiredMember2

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

The site allocated for the extension is used as the coach park - that is when the coach drivers can be bothered as ordinarily they prefer to pull up on Church Road and obstruct traffic instead.

I am surprised to learn that some local residents are happy for the QH to use Church Road and surrounding residential roads as over-flow parking for coaches and guests. I would suggest that anyone who would like to put in a good word for this extention should drop Croydon Planning a line something like:

Dear Croydon Planning,

I live within the locality of the QH and totally endorse this extention and the use of my road and surrounding roads as parking for coaches and guests. It is great to see the young people walking along the Triangle on thier way to catch a train into town.

Lots of love

xxxxx

.It’s a win win for CP as far as I’m concerned, hundreds of tourists pass through the area a week and you would think because the rooms are so awful they can’t wait to get out and frequent the local shops, bars and cafes. They go back across the channel saying the hotel was a bit rubbish but CP was delightful and it was cheap as frites.


I take it you are simply speculating that is what the students/tourists rave about when they return home NL? I would be very surprised if that were the case because as much as it's great seeing the groups of language students strolling through CP am I the only one who has noticed they are always on their way to a train station?

The QH management could have worked with local businesses to promote the area but apart from a mention of the park (CPP & Selhurst) the QH local info focuses on guiding their guests to the nearest transport hubs:

PLACES OF INTEREST AROUND CRYSTAL PALACE http://www.eurohotel...-london-queens/
  • Crystal Palace National Sports Centre: 0.5 mile
  • Crystal Palace FC: 1.9 mile
  • Mayday University Hospital: 2.8 miles
  • Fairfield Hall: 2.9 miles
  • Wimbledon Tennis Lawn: 7.4 miles
  • Oxford Circus: 9 miles
  • London Financial "City" District: 8.3 miles
  • Tower of London: 7.9 miles
  • West end: 8.6 miles
  • East end: 8.3 miles
  • Buckingham Palace: 7.8 miles
A number of local business owners I know have, over the years, approached different QH managers to try to persuade them to promote CP - unfortunately the QH management did not, and do not, think that approach would benefit QH and they prefer to be associated with key London visitor attractions not the delights of the local high street. I expect that is afterall what draws many of the overseas guest - what appears to be close proximity to central London.

Edited by citizen M, 08 November 2012 - 10:27 AM.


#12 Norwood lad

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:40 AM

I’m not sure why people are being so disingenuous towards tourists. They are not all gormless souls traipsing between the train station and QH oblivious to CP town centre.

Loving also the slightly patronising dig at people who happen to think having a load of tourists in the area is actually a good thing.
Lets see if we can be just as patronising and extreme with the other view,

Dear Croydon,

As a local resident I am appalled at the cheek of bus drivers parking on a public road thereby potentially taking away a parking space I may potentially want. The tourists they deliver do nothing for the area but clog up the streets and train stations and the ones that for some strange reason do frequent the pubs take precious seating away from locals. Adding another 25 room will tip the area over the edge.

Yours


Doesn't really add much to the debate now does it.

Now if we’re going to be grown up we could debate the pro’s and con’s

Here’s a question- If the guests of the hotel and coach drivers actually parked in the hotel grounds would people still have a problem with them?

I like Chewder happen to think tourists are good for the area and the QH overall brings in more benefits than harm.

I don’t see adding 25 rooms onto the building is a huge change and as these new rooms will be miles better than the current rooms it may encourage them to improve the rest. It is also looks like they are not building on the car park but above the 1st floor of the current building so I am unsure why parking for coaches will be lost.

Posted Image

If there is a problem currently with Coaches parking where they are not supposed to then it will still be a problem regardless if this is approved or not will it not? Coach loads of tourists will still block book rooms in QH, adding 25 more rooms will add what potentially? One more coach at a push?

No one is supporting coaches parking where they shouldn’t and if they are then the local authority or whoever is in charge of the stretch of the road should pull their finger out and slap some parking fines on the coaches. The QH has a large car park out the back , I have no idea if this is fully used.

Similarly if EuroHotels are buying up local family homes and becoming slum landlords then they should have the book thrown at them

This may well be refused as it was before but the problem of coach drivers not obeying the rules will still persist. I don’t know if it is viable but could a condition be placed that Coaches should only allowed on QH land? Why can’t they be parked in the car park behind the building? What about a better layout in the car park so Coaches are able to turn into the car park without a million and one manoeuvres on Church Rd?

#13 Summit Lover

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:58 AM

Interesting debate.

I live very close to the Queens Hotel and have done for many years. I have watched the changes over the years and have welcomed the de-vamp of the frontal aspect over the last few years. I have endured several years of late night noise when they used to have functions ++ but thankfully they have reduced considerably - possibly because of the last noisy fight out there a couple of years or so ago when the hotel staff were attacked too. I have seen the years when the Hotel did a deal with the council to house asylum seekers and the change over the last few years when the Hotel has attracted coachloads of tourists looking for a cheap play to flop.

Re the 25 room addition - I can't see that it will make a huge amount of difference, but if they continue to expand then it will have an even greater impact on parking for locals, which is already quite difficult at times. Often our drive-way is blocked by a charabanc and it is frequently difficult to make your way swiftly along the narrow Church Rd pavement due to long, thick snakes of tourists ambling along. I don't mind putting up with the inconvenience as long as local trade in the triangle and surrounding areas is profiting.

I DO think a pedestrian crossing should be installed opposite the Queens Hotel though, for the safety of pedestrians, car-drivers, motorcyclists and cyclists. Hordes of tourists often try to cross that very busy road en masse and there have been frequent accidents in this spot over the years - perhaps the Hotel should be required to part fund it? - also to part fund the litter the Hotels occupants leave around the area as they stand around in groups. The top of our drive is daily littered with drinks cans, fast-food containers etc.

#14 RetiredMember2

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

I’m not sure why people are being so disingenuous towards tourists. They are not all gormless souls traipsing between the train station and QH oblivious to CP town centre.


No one is being disingenous towards the guests of the QH. You seem very confident that they will return to their native lands to promote the wonders of CP. I am very very aware of the benefits that the tourist footfall could bring to the locality and think that the QH is missing a trick by not making meaningful liniks with the local commun ity and economy.

Currently the Triangle is used by QH patrons but mainly as a route to another destination.

Loving also the slightly patronising dig at people who happen to think having a load of tourists in the area is actually a good thing.
Lets see if we can be just as patronising and extreme with the other view,

Dear Croydon,

As a local resident I am appalled at the cheek of bus drivers parking on a public road thereby potentially taking away a parking space I may potentially want. The tourists they deliver do nothing for the area but clog up the streets and train stations and the ones that for some strange reason do frequent the pubs take precious seating away from locals. Adding another 25 room will tip the area over the edge.

Yours


Doesn't really add much to the debate now does it.


Dear NL,

The objections to the QH application have already been submitted so thank you for the template but it's a bit late, however you could re-work it into an endorsement of this application or you could use the one I posted earlier!

If you really really want to be "grown up" about this then suggest you take a look at the traffic and parking policies that hotels of this size have to comply with and perhaps give QH the heads up? By the way there is a second application for a two storey building to be built on the car-park at the back.

Ciao for now!

citizen M x

#15 RetiredMember1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:31 PM

Have to agree with Citizen M. Here follows my perspective as an ex-teacher who's taken school trips abroad. Since the majority of tourists staying in the QH are school or college parties who arrive and depart and are shepherded about in large groups, I've seen them only in two places: en route or at the station and, in the odd, afternoon-off-timetable breakway group, buying snacks in Sainsbury's. The apparent reason for their visit to CP, ie, as a cheap base to visit the 'real London' of Buck House and Madamae Tussauds, means they are just not allowed off the leash to spend money in CP. They add nothing to the local economy beyond what they spend at QH.

Edited by GillW, 08 November 2012 - 12:33 PM.