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Church Road SE19 - Proposed Road Safety Measures - comments?

Church Road Proposed Safety Scheme zebra crossings cycle lanes councillors road safety se19

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#1 charlie

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

Councillor Kathy Bee (South Norwood Ward) has asked for feedback on the proposed road safety measures set out in the plan below. Please do forward comments to Kathy.Bee@croydon.gov.uk or post them here.

 

It looks like there are quite a few new Zebra Crossings proposed plus a cycle lane.

 

gallery_743_149_1008416.jpg

 

 



#2 charlie

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

If you click on the image it is alot bigger and clearer.



#3 Zirconium

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:55 PM

If you click on the image it is alot bigger and clearer.

Thanks Charlie - I have responded supporting the proposals (though I think cycle lanes are pointless if they are also used for car pakring).



#4 charlie

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:09 PM

I agree about the cycle lanes Zirconium. Most of Church Road doesn't have yellow lines and loads of people park up for the Doctors' surgery opposite Stambourne Way. That junction definitely needs improving - it can be a nightmare for pedestrians, cars, bikes and cyclists.

 

Just found some more correspondence from the highways engineer in the email, it would be good to know all the potential benefits of the scheme. DEADLINE FOR COMMENTS IS 29 MARCH.

 

 

I have now completed this investigation and would like to share with you, measures/changes which I’ve identified as having the potential for improving safety for the various road users of Church Road.  The proposals carry a number of advantages for all the various road users, and more importantly, I am pleased to say that an improvement for one user group is not at the expense of another.  

 

During my site investigations, I observed time and time again, that many drivers that wanted to turn right into either Sylvan Hill or Stambourne Way, willingly travelled distances of upto 20-30 metres on the wrong side of the road, to by-pass queuing traffic. Needless to say, this off course brought them into direct conflict with drivers emerging from those same side roads.

 

I believe that removal of the existing pinch points (5 pedestrian refuges), and replacing four of them with Zebra crossings, as shown in the attached drawing, would immensely improve pedestrian safety and help drivers on Church Road in a number of different ways.

 

The marking out of zebra crossings is likely to resolve conflict points such as the one mentioned above and also help to smooth the flow of traffic.

 

In order to keep my email concise and to the point, I have not listed out all the potential benefits of the scheme, however, if you require more detailed information or wish to discuss any aspects of the scheme, do not hesitate to  contact me.

 

Please note that the attached drawing is only an outline showing the broader changes which are being considered under the current proposals.



#5 wulfhound

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:31 PM

This is pretty good stuff, certainly a big improvement on the current situation. It looks from the drawing like they're removing the painted central reservation - hopefully being closer to oncoming traffic will reduce peoples' temptation to put their foot down quite so hard.

 

A couple of things they could improve further:-

 

The on-street parking ought to go - as well as being a danger for cyclists (both from being "doored" and forcing them in to the main flow of 30mph traffic) it causes delay to buses and anybody stuck behind them, inconveniencing an awful lot of people (especially when the northbound lane is a solid queue) for the benefit of very few. It's a small number of car spaces for the amount of hassle it causes, they could easily be accommodated off the street or on nearby side roads.

 

(except, that is, when the hotel is having one of its "special events", and the road gets jammed to high heaven - but I'm not sure the community should be having to pay the price for that).

 

The zebras are a big improvement although I wonder if they oughtn't put speed tables or texture on at least some of them.. don't mean full-on speed bumps, thinking of the treatments Lambeth are using around Gipsy Hill. Anything that can encourage people to do 30 rather than 40, basically.



#6 Norwood lad

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:35 PM

The problem with the traffic on Church road is due to the huge traffic queues due to the whole triangle one way system. Drivers get frustrated and whizz up the middle to turn off and find another route. Surely by  removing the traffic islands they will just be free to play chicken with oncoming cars and people trying to cross Church Rd?



#7 charlie

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:14 PM

This is pretty good stuff, certainly a big improvement on the current situation. It looks from the drawing like they're removing the painted central reservation - hopefully being closer to oncoming traffic will reduce peoples' temptation to put their foot down quite so hard.

 

A couple of things they could improve further:-

 

The on-street parking ought to go - as well as being a danger for cyclists (both from being "doored" and forcing them in to the main flow of 30mph traffic) it causes delay to buses and anybody stuck behind them, inconveniencing an awful lot of people (especially when the northbound lane is a solid queue) for the benefit of very few. It's a small number of car spaces for the amount of hassle it causes, they could easily be accommodated off the street or on nearby side roads.

 

(except, that is, when the hotel is having one of its "special events", and the road gets jammed to high heaven - but I'm not sure the community should be having to pay the price for that).

 

The zebras are a big improvement although I wonder if they oughtn't put speed tables or texture on at least some of them.. don't mean full-on speed bumps, thinking of the treatments Lambeth are using around Gipsy Hill. Anything that can encourage people to do 30 rather than 40, basically.

 

Agree about the on street parking - this is a major road and almost all the houses/flats have off street parking. Did a recce of the road opposite the Doctors surgery - near Stambourne Way and do not understand why they have on street parking there when the rest of the road in the direction of the Triangle has double yellows apart from the designated parking bays. Why can't they park in the surgery drive - it's large enough and isn't there ample room at the back of the building?

 

Not sure the traffic islands provide any refuge when crossing the road especially if you have a bike or bags of shopping or pushchair. Personally find them very difficult.

 

Like the idea of putting in a speed table - do they combine them with Zebras?

 

The problem with the traffic on Church road is due to the huge traffic queues due to the whole triangle one way system. Drivers get frustrated and whizz up the middle to turn off and find another route. Surely by  removing the traffic islands they will just be free to play chicken with oncoming cars and people trying to cross Church Rd?

 

But the traffic island near Stambourne is beyond the turning Norwood Lad ( I think) - so not sure what difference it would make by removing it with regard to whizzing up the middle of the road? Proper road markings should help prevent that?

 

It might be good to push the double yellows further down Stambourne Way as the parked cars create a bottle neck at the junction with Church Road.


Edited by charlie, 25 March 2013 - 04:15 PM.


#8 wulfhound

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

Yes, speed tables combined with zebras are commonplace in many London boroughs. Thoroughly agree re the existing traffic islands, they're really not fit for purpose - once (and only once) tried to use them with both a buggy and a walking toddler. Not an experience I ever want to repeat.



#9 charlie

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:43 PM

Sounds pretty hairy!

 

The only time the traffic islands came in really handy was when the OLympic Torch came down Church Road.  :) They made a really good vantage point. Otherwise they do seem to get knocked into quite alot.

 

The zebra crossing down near All Saints - Highfield Road? seems to work although I am sure a fresh lick of paint would make it stand out a bit more. 


Edited by charlie, 25 March 2013 - 10:45 PM.


#10 Daisy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:10 AM

Are there any safety proposals for Grange Road? Over the last two weeks there have been two quite dramatic crashes by Beauchamp Road which have destroyed cars and large amounts of street furniture. The speed and recklessness of car drivers down this road, and resulting crashes must have cost croydon council thousands of pounds not to mention the cost to residents. At times it is very frightening trying to cross the road. Please help us Kathy Bee !

#11 whydelilah

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

I live next to the zebra at the All Saints end and it doesn't work that well. Cars are very lax at slowing down to let people cross, once they're on the Church Road stretch they just bowl along until they get to the lights at the other end. I think more crossings would actually be of benefit and may make people think more about pedestrians. The texture thing is an interesting idea, I wonder if that would work leading up to the crossings?



#12 charlie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

I live next to the zebra at the All Saints end and it doesn't work that well. Cars are very lax at slowing down to let people cross, once they're on the Church Road stretch they just bowl along until they get to the lights at the other end. I think more crossings would actually be of benefit and may make people think more about pedestrians. The texture thing is an interesting idea, I wonder if that would work leading up to the crossings?

 

The sight lines to the All Saints Crossing are quite good from the car so people should slow down but conversely they are good to the traffic lights so totallly agree as have seen loads of cars race to get through the lights at the junction with Beulah Hill. A new crossing just past Stambourne Way might help but there could be more visuals or texture on the approach to All Saints. Is there still a lollipop person at school times? 

 

 

The problem with the traffic on Church road is due to the huge traffic queues due to the whole triangle one way system. Drivers get frustrated and whizz up the middle to turn off and find another route. Surely by  removing the traffic islands they will just be free to play chicken with oncoming cars and people trying to cross Church Rd?

 

Norwood Lad, the new crossing is just before the right turn into Stambourne Way which could prevent the race down the middle of the road. There have been a few close misses recently especially with cars completing cutting the corner of the junction.

 

And, if the ward councillors are reading this - the road down to the only carpark in the area at Sainsbury's is an a terrible state at the moment - never seen so many potholes. :( 


Edited by charlie, 26 March 2013 - 12:44 PM.


#13 wulfhound

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

Charlie - any idea on the deadline for writing in re Church Road?



#14 charlie

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:35 PM

Wulfhund - I think it is Friday 29 March but not much is going to happen until Tuesday as it is a bank holiday. Think it is going to committee at beginning of April so I suppose sooner rather than later.

 

You can email kathy.bee@croydon.gov.uk but she'll be picking up comments here too and was meant to be posting if her account had been validated. 

 

I'd like to know more detail about the scheme as noticed that they have changed the top of Grange Road too which makes it very difficult to turn right but more pedestrian friendly.



#15 Cllr Kathy Bee

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

Thank you for all your comments, I have been following the discussion and have linked the officer dealing with this into the site so he can see what you all have to say. 

 

Its about time I joined Virtual Norwood!

 

Kathy







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Church Road, Proposed Safety Scheme, zebra crossings, cycle lanes, councillors, road safety, se19