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Massive Chinese take away planned for CP.

Chinese Development Proposals Crystal Palace Park Top Site Development Crystal Palace London Crystal Palace ZhongRong Group Bromley Council Masterplan

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#16 kibitzer

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:49 AM

There is a strong rumour that Victory Place site is going to be sold.



#17 jamesl

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:53 AM

I think it may be Kibutzer but I assume a purchaser would want to develop with existing planning permission, and if that happened I think it would be more difficult to argue that a replica CP was justified when VP includes a hotel, retail, housing and an outdoor public space in the form of the square.

#18 charlie

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:06 PM

And, just a reminder of what the approved masterplan actually includes for on the Palace site:

 

Construction of museum /interpretation centre (Class D1) with viewing platform comprising up to 830 sq m, together with the change of use of part of subway to museum / interpretation centre;

and
 
Construction of a tree-top walkway;
 
 
CPP Museum (Use Class D1)
 
MOL: Yes
 
6.9.13 This museum building would have a maximum height of 23m. This height is necessary to achieve wonderful views over the Park, which the general public will be able to enjoy from the museum’s viewing platform.The rest of the facility will merely replace the museum facility that currently resides on Anerley Hill Edge. The museum will connect through to the listed subway, which will provide a function space in association with the museum.
 
A museum and visitors’ centre incorporating the Subway to conserve and protect the historic structure and ensure public access.
The centre will house an interpretive exhibition about the Park alongside a number of other park services including learning suite, café , toilets, viewing platform, CPP themed retail and a staffed ‘human face’ information point

 

 

I'd like to see this included in the Heritage Lottery Fund bid



#19 MilesWhitey

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:23 PM

Yes we should be grumpy that neither Bromley nor the GLA have been up front about a potential project that might just wreck the park rather than save it but that is teh way the developers work - speak to the relevant authorities first before going to The Community. However, right mow there is just too little information to go on and as James has pointed out above, that which is available seems to conflict with the space that is available and the many constraints upon the site itself.  In addition, how would a replica Crystal Palace - in whatever form - stand against the current Building Regulations which seem to be actively disposed against glass buildings? How would you service such a building? Where would all the car parking go, given that most people would want to access the site in the comfort of their own car?  What benefits could it bring to the park? I can't help thinking that either this is just a flyer for something that is a pie in somebody's sky - or has Raymond Hall at last found a backer for his New Crystal Palace proposal - http://www.raymondha...-crystal-palace?  I for one am just going to have to sit tight and see what emerges as I'm not going to man the barricades or put the flags out on the basis of a flimsy press release. 



#20 Borgus

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

The Crystal Palace transmitter isn't going to be demolished to make way for an oversized greenhouse or any other structure that would want to cover the original footprint.  It's height and location enable it to uniquely provide varied transmission and reception services across London and the Southeast, forming part of a local and national communications network.

 

Some people assume that the Croydon (Beulah Hill) transmitter could take over all the functions of Crystal Palace, but that seems unlikely.  Croydon is three-quarters the height and this reduces the range it can transmit and receive.  The size of it's footprint and foundations will limit any extension of height and the weight of aerials it can carry.

 

Everyone seems to forget that any structure that is proposed will have to ensure that it's profile does not interfere with the transmission and reception functions and that the people working/visiting it are protected from the microwave radiation.


"It does not require many words to speak the truth." - Chief Joseph

#21 tekton23

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:42 PM

I love the original building, but this reeks of pastiche. I'd love to know how the project could ever be made feasible in terms of project costs - glass in particular. Also in terms of building regs and other codes relating to sustainability.

Rebuilding something from a bygone era seems such a wasteful folly - not very Victorian somehow. It would be like Joseph Paxton proposing to build a mock Tudor palace on the site in 1851.

The site could be a mid-winter summer retreat, somewhere to warm your bones on a grey, rainy day - perhaps a modern take on the same construction technologies used at the Eden project; ETFE and efficient, lightweight structures.

#22 KrisDD

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:01 AM

I don't really understand the arguments for and against and need to read more to gain a better understanding but it strikes me that there were no plans to do anything with the Crystal Palace site apart from leave it in its present condition? Whilst the park is lovely the top area does suffer from the white elephant in the room vibe. Its a vast space with very little in the way of attractions for local residents. Now and again there are events such as the car show and festivals but from what I can see these happen sporadically throughout the year. Isn't the argument for development for the park and the area a strong one?

 

In the absence of any other plans for the site (or are there?) why not consider this one? And by 'consider' I mean just that. No one has seen or read any plans for this proposal as of yet and we have no idea what the company behind this plan to do with the site. Could it be that they want to build a museum / flats / an art gallery / a retail park / a fairground / a cinema? We just don't know. Why do we have to completely rule something out before knowing more about it? This sounds like an exciting prospect to me. If the plan also involves extra money going into other areas of the park, then the plan is even more attractive. This could also lead to a lot of much needed investment to other areas surrounding the park. It seems that most opposition to this is coming from residents of Crystal Palace. Whilst the Triangle is now a fantastic area with houses prices way above what most of us can afford areas such Penge (where I live), Anerley and Sydenham could really prosper from any development of the park.



#23 John Greatrex

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:37 AM

Don't miss the opportunity on Sunday 22nd September 2013 to visit Paxton's Crystal Palace Corner which was awarded FULL planning permission back in 2009.

The planning application was paid for by the Friends of Crystal Palace Park. The Friends will have membership forms available on that day.

#24 Trux

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:26 PM

I don't really understand the arguments for and against and need to read more to gain a better understanding but it strikes me that there were no plans to do anything with the Crystal Palace site apart from leave it in its present condition? Whilst the park is lovely the top area does suffer from the white elephant in the room vibe. Its a vast space with very little in the way of attractions for local residents. Now and again there are events such as the car show and festivals but from what I can see these happen sporadically throughout the year. Isn't the argument for development for the park and the area a strong one?

 

In the absence of any other plans for the site (or are there?) why not consider this one? And by 'consider' I mean just that. No one has seen or read any plans for this proposal as of yet and we have no idea what the company behind this plan to do with the site. Could it be that they want to build a museum / flats / an art gallery / a retail park / a fairground / a cinema? We just don't know. Why do we have to completely rule something out before knowing more about it? This sounds like an exciting prospect to me. If the plan also involves extra money going into other areas of the park, then the plan is even more attractive. This could also lead to a lot of much needed investment to other areas surrounding the park. It seems that most opposition to this is coming from residents of Crystal Palace. Whilst the Triangle is now a fantastic area with houses prices way above what most of us can afford areas such Penge (where I live), Anerley and Sydenham could really prosper from any development of the park.

 

Strange as it may sound I don't particularly want house prices to rise. Whilst I agree on the point that the site of the old CP is a bit of a wasted space at the moment, anything approaching the concepts and images posted in this thread seems massively OTT to me.



#25 KrisDD

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:49 PM

Strange as it may sound I don't particularly want house prices to rise. Whilst I agree on the point that the site of the old CP is a bit of a wasted space at the moment, anything approaching the concepts and images posted in this thread seems massively OTT to me.

 

 

I'm not sure I ever said I wanted house prices to rise? I was just trying to say that this could bring investment to the infrastructure of the surrounding areas of CP. Sorry if it came across otherwise. I suppose the knock on effect of infrastructure development would lead to an increase in house prices but they are rising at an alarming rate already as per most parts of London. I have several friends who have tried to move to Penge since we moved that have been completely out-priced. Regardless of this happening or not happening. Like I said I am not totally sure of the arguments for and against and would love to know more about opposition to the plans and the actual plans themselves.



#26 Zirconium

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

I don't really understand the arguments for and against and need to read more to gain a better understanding but it strikes me that there were no plans to do anything with the Crystal Palace site apart from leave it in its present condition? Whilst the park is lovely the top area does suffer from the white elephant in the room vibe. Its a vast space with very little in the way of attractions for local residents. Now and again there are events such as the car show and festivals but from what I can see these happen sporadically throughout the year. Isn't the argument for development for the park and the area a strong one?

 

In the absence of any other plans for the site (or are there?) why not consider this one? And by 'consider' I mean just that. No one has seen or read any plans for this proposal as of yet and we have no idea what the company behind this plan to do with the site. Could it be that they want to build a museum / flats / an art gallery / a retail park / a fairground / a cinema? We just don't know. Why do we have to completely rule something out before knowing more about it? This sounds like an exciting prospect to me. If the plan also involves extra money going into other areas of the park, then the plan is even more attractive. This could also lead to a lot of much needed investment to other areas surrounding the park. It seems that most opposition to this is coming from residents of Crystal Palace. Whilst the Triangle is now a fantastic area with houses prices way above what most of us can afford areas such Penge (where I live), Anerley and Sydenham could really prosper from any development of the park.

On the contrary there is a very comprehensive blueprint for developing the Park known as "The Masterplan".  This was drawn up by internationally acclaimed lanscape architects Latz and Partners.  It includes a treelined outline of the Crystal Palace on the top site as well as a treetop walk, an interpretation centre and viewing .  Other features include glass houses and a treetop walk.  You can see details of the Masterplan on the Crystapl Palace Campaign website http://www.crystalpalacecampaign.org/

 

Bromley Borough are committed to implementing the Masterplan in stages (perhaps over 10-20 years).  A detailed 10 point action plan has been drawn up for more immediate action.  Things seemed to be going swimmingly until the recent revelations about the Chinese developer.  Bromley are working with the GLA (Greater London Authority) to provide funding for the Park.  I suspect that Boris Johnson in his typically blundering fashion is the mover and shaker behind this latest development.  It is perhaps worthwhile for Bromley to enter discussions about funding with the Chinese consortium providing they relate to the Masterplan. Bromley will lose all credibility if this is not the case.  Rebuilding the Crystal Palace as a glorified shopping mall is certainly not part of the Masterplan and will surely meet with massive and very effective opposition.

 

The Crystal Palace Park Community Stakeholder Group are (in my view quite rightly) very disturbed by this press release and have recently published trheir views on the matter: http://www.crystalpa.../category/news/



#27 KrisDD

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 10:31 PM

On the contrary there is a very comprehensive blueprint for developing the Park known as "The Masterplan". This was drawn up by internationally acclaimed lanscape architects Latz and Partners. It includes a treelined outline of the Crystal Palace on the top site as well as a treetop walk, an interpretation centre and viewing . Other features include glass houses and a treetop walk. You can see details of the Masterplan on the Crystapl Palace Campaign website http://www.crystalpalacecampaign.org/

Bromley Borough are committed to implementing the Masterplan in stages (perhaps over 10-20 years). A detailed 10 point action plan has been drawn up for more immediate action. Things seemed to be going swimmingly until the recent revelations about the Chinese developer. Bromley are working with the GLA (Greater London Authority) to provide funding for the Park. I suspect that Boris Johnson in his typically blundering fashion is the mover and shaker behind this latest development. It is perhaps worthwhile for Bromley to enter discussions about funding with the Chinese consortium providing they relate to the Masterplan. Bromley will lose all credibility if this is not the case. Rebuilding the Crystal Palace as a glorified shopping mall is certainly not part of the Masterplan and will surely meet with massive and very effective opposition.

The Crystal Palace Park Community Stakeholder Group are (in my view quite rightly) very disturbed by this press release and have recently published trheir views on the matter: http://www.crystalpa.../category/news/ thanks for this. I shall read both the plans and the views of the stake holders soon as well.

#28 John Greatrex

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 10:21 AM

PAXTON'S CRYSTAL PALACE CORNER UPDATE

 

As mentioned a few items back  on Sunday Sept 22 you are invited to Paxton's Corner to help celebrate the top-site.

 

Prior to then, if you are free on Sunday 8th Sept. please pop along and help the volunteers de-weed the area. 

Attached Files



#29 charlie

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:18 PM

The Crystal Palace Park Community Stakeholder Group are (in my view quite rightly) very disturbed by this press release and have recently published trheir views on the matter: http://www.crystalpa.../category/news/

 

Thanks for posting Zirconium. 

 

The CPP Community Stakeholder Group letter in full for those who haven't followed through on the link:

 

Rebuild the Crystal Palace? CSG response!

Posted on 1 August, 2013

 

A letter was written to the GLA and the London Borough of Bromley expressing the concern of local people about the lack of consultation  in the progression of the reported talks with ZhongRon Hodings Ltd.

 

This is the letter (verbatim) written to the GLA and Bromley Council (1 August 2013):

===============================

 

We refer to London Borough of Bromley’s blind copied email, circulated on the afternoon of Thursday the 25th July. This stated that Bromley is having “a very early conversation with a developer who may be interested in developing the so called top site.”

 

The Community Stakeholder Group (CSG) was surprised and disappointed to be informed of this development in this way. Not least because it appears that the announcement was driven by a desire to pre-empt a news story in ‘Property Week’ and not to keep the community informed.

 

Moreover, this revelation and the way in which it was made, stands in stark contrast to the recent flow of information between Bromley, the CSG and other groups, which has developed over the last 18 months. This departure inevitably raises questions of trust and good faith, between Bromley, the Greater London Authority (GLA) and the wider community.

 

One of our functions is to act as a conduit between the Park Executive and the Community, a formal role set out in the Park Executive’s terms of reference. Our inability to respond to the enquiries and concerns expressed following Bromley’s announcement has been damaging and has caused us to question the nature of our relationship with Bromley and the GLA.

 

All stakeholder groups in the new park management structure should have been made aware of the discussions in a more appropriate and timely manner.

 

Bromley’s email implies that discussions with the potential developer are on-going.

 

Can you please confirm when and by what means, the community will be involved in these. This is vital, as the uncertainty this announcement has caused is very damaging.

 

It also raises the question of how and when in the future, we and other stakeholder groups will be informed of any other discussions, and kept updated and involved in plans for the park.

 

We would like confirmation that Bromley and GLA have made it clear to the ‘developer’ that there is an approved Masterplan for Crystal Palace Park which was developed through extensive consultation with the community and is currently being used an as inspirational blueprint for the GLA’s 10 Point plan and the Heritage Lottery Funding (“HLF”) bid.

 

With regard to the HLF bid, we would like an explanation as to why none of the proposals for the top site contained in the Masterplan, e.g. the museum/Interpretation centre with viewing platform and the tree-top walkway, have found their way into the HLF bid, currently being drafted.

 

There is understandable concern that these on going talks call into question the status of the Masterplan and the 10 Point plan, and jeopardise the impending HLF bid. Even allowing for the paucity of information provided, it is difficult to see how the recent discussions fit within the current agreed plans for the park. The proposal, as reported in Property Week, represents a very significant departure from what the Masterplan envisages for the top site.

 

It is imperative that Bromley and the GLA confirm whether or not they intend to honour their previously expressed commitment to the Masterplan and other related current plans, for the park. It was Bob McQuillan, the former Chief Planner of Bromley who said that the vision of the Masterplan would provide a template for Crystal Palace Park’s future over the next 25 years. It would, therefore, be helpful if Bromley could clarify the exact status of the Masterplan, the weight it holds in Bromley’s planning framework and whether it is a material consideration when considering speculative proposals coming forward for the park please.

 

Numerous schemes have been put forward over the years for large commercial developments on the top site, none of which have had significant community support. The damaging consequences of such a development, for the Park, local economies, traffic volumes and the environment, have been extensively explored and discussed. There is real concern that the current discussions will further delay much needed investment in the Park, and undermine the hard work already undertaken to improve the park for the community.

 

We believed that a clear consensus had emerged amongst the GLA, Bromley and stakeholders that the future of the Park and its regeneration lay in incremental, sustainable improvements and that the work done over the last two years has shown this to be an appropriate and viable way forward. Recent events have called all this into question and it is essential that the GLA and LBB publicly confirm their support of the Park Masterplan.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours Sincerely

Martin Tempia

Chairman C.P. Park Community Stakeholder Group

 

Cc’d

Tom Papworth: Park Executive Committee Member

John Getgood: Park Executive Committee Member

James Cleverly: GLA Regeneration Committee



#30 Trux

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 06:22 PM

On the contrary there is a very comprehensive blueprint for developing the Park known as "The Masterplan".  This was drawn up by internationally acclaimed lanscape architects Latz and Partners.  It includes a treelined outline of the Crystal Palace on the top site as well as a treetop walk, an interpretation centre and viewing .  Other features include glass houses and a treetop walk.  You can see details of the Masterplan on the Crystapl Palace Campaign website http://www.crystalpalacecampaign.org/

 

Bromley Borough are committed to implementing the Masterplan in stages (perhaps over 10-20 years).  A detailed 10 point action plan has been drawn up for more immediate action.  Things seemed to be going swimmingly until the recent revelations about the Chinese developer.  Bromley are working with the GLA (Greater London Authority) to provide funding for the Park.  I suspect that Boris Johnson in his typically blundering fashion is the mover and shaker behind this latest development.  It is perhaps worthwhile for Bromley to enter discussions about funding with the Chinese consortium providing they relate to the Masterplan. Bromley will lose all credibility if this is not the case.  Rebuilding the Crystal Palace as a glorified shopping mall is certainly not part of the Masterplan and will surely meet with massive and very effective opposition.

 

The Crystal Palace Park Community Stakeholder Group are (in my view quite rightly) very disturbed by this press release and have recently published trheir views on the matter: http://www.crystalpa.../category/news/

 

Thanks for posting this.







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