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Sustainable community hub in heart of Crystal Palace Triangle

25 Church Road KICC planning licensing

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#16 GipsyHill

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:20 PM

It seems that some HGVs could be servicing this building as their web site adds: “We have limited parking at the rear of the building suitable for 3 large vehicles. However this access is shared and with other local businesses and therefore cannot be blocked by large or Heavy Good Vehicles for prolonged periods of time.  Access to the rear of the building is via Milestone Road.

 

I’m new to planning terms, but I think D1 usage allows for public exhibitions hall type events and church hall uses (their web site also promotes Trade Show and Conventions type events).  Yet it seems the community uses they are considering may also cover conventional D2 type uses like for “...fitness providers...“ and “…we even thought about a regular cinema club to keep the roots alive.”. But maybe these are appropriate for a church hall when not the main activity of the venue?

 

KICC appears to have run the IGOC (International Gathering of Champions) event in ExCel. Could a similar type of event happen at Crystal Palace in their newly fitted out convention and exhibition hall?  This KICC organised event had 10,000 visitors a day over 5 days with exhibition and evening concert (but note, this venue was 2,000m2).  If so, it may demonstrates what type of size and scale conferences/ conventions KICC can, or have, achieved.  Is this the same "KICC" group?

 

Some may welcome such a scale of visitors to Crystal Palace, but this ExCel Case Study promotes 3,700 car parking spaces to support the venue.  So I can see why there would be concerns for overwhelming local parking at Crystal Palace for such type of event, albeit in a venue of only 850m2 (as promoted for 25 Church Road now).

 

So, I would welcome a knowing about what large sized events KICC have actually organised in the UK in exhibition/hall spaces, as this could be a good indicator of what type of events they may wish to host at Crystal Palace in a space allowing similar uses.

 

I hope KICC are on board on local forums so they can participate and join in with the local discussions. 

 

GH


Edited by GipsyHill, 07 September 2014 - 08:28 PM.


#17 Trux

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 10:54 PM

Yes, GH, it's the same KICC.



#18 Fang

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 01:04 PM

I hope KICC are on board on local forums so they can participate and join in with the local discussions. 

 

GH

 

They've had over four years to do this. I shouldn't hold your breath.



"This is what we find, this is what we find, the hope that springs eternal, springs right up your behind."

#19 charlie

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 10:39 PM

I've emailed Cllr Williams, the Crystal Palace Cllr for Bromley, making some of these points.He seems very much "on our side" and is attending the event. I'm quite pessimistic about the eventual outcome however, it seems to me that KICC may have been having discussions with Bromley and will do just enough in their application for change in use to get it approved. Al

 

CapitAl, you are absolutely right. We have started to get some feedback from the few selected political and community stakeholders that attended the private briefing and it would seem that KICC has appointed planning consultants Simply Planning to act for them. One of their associates was there along with KICC's Senior Management team's Chief Executive officer Pastor Dipo Oluyomi, for whom 25 Church Road was purchased, and the Chief Operating Officer James McGlashan, but sadly and again no Trustees! 

 

The head of Simply Planning is Roger Birtles who is ex Senior Planning Director of RPS Planning Development - one of RPS's specialities being " Strategic and tactical advice on achieving planning, listed building and conservation area consents".

 

RPS is also the company responsible for overseeing the lavish refurbishment, £2 million according to KICC, as an identikit of their church in Walthamstow.

 

By all accounts, it was another tangled web of half truths and misinformation regarding KICC's proposals for the building. KICC will say and do anything to get the change of use, despite their pronouncements in 2010 when they did not appeal the refusal for change of use.

 

However, they are clearly taking note of social media and apparently will be holding a public consultation prior to the planning application being submitted, which is now expected in mid October. By all accounts, KICC had not understood the meaning of community consultation, which is not surprising given that they have no connection with the local area. The volte face occured on Tuesday. Whether it happens, we will have to wait and see.


Edited by charlie, 10 September 2014 - 10:46 PM.


#20 Trux

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 01:31 AM

Also on that Simply Planning page for Roger Birtles - under Recent Projects:

 

"Change of use of a former Grade II* listed cinema to a place of worship in the London Borough of Greenwich"

:huh:

 

I wonder was KICC the client there too?



#21 CapitAl

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 08:58 PM

Councillor Williams passed on this letter he's received from KICC.

 

Al

 

 

 

Hello

We wanted to inform you that The Open Door will announce tomorrow the completion of their over £2 million renovation and upgrading of 25 Church Road.  The venue is now ready to open its doors to local residents.

Dr Dipo Oluyomi, Pastor at The Open Door said;

“Following our restoration of this historic building we are delighted to now offer its use back to the Crystal Palace community.  Alongside our church services we plan to hold many events and host community groups so that 25 Church Road will once again become the vibrant hub of the Triangle.”

The Open Door (an affiliate church of KICC) hope to run two church services a week but the remaining 70% of the timetable would be available for local community and private hire use.  In order to be able to hold the church services they are applying to the London Borough of Bromley for a change of use from just D2 (assembly and leisure) to D2 (assembly and leisure) and D1 (worship).

The Open Door are already discussing how its exceptional facilities will be used by community groups.  These might include; education courses, fitness clubs, coffee mornings, a cinema club, corporate events, concerts or private hire.

They are consulting the community about their plans and asking for people’s views.  There will be an Open Day at the venue on Saturday 4th October, 10am-3pm (The Open Door, 25 Church Road, Crystal Palace, SE19 2TE).  17,000 newsletters (a copy of which is attached for your information) are being delivered to local residents and businesses tomorrow informing them of the Open Door plans.  If residents are unable to attend the Open Day they can also send their feedback via an online form at www.theopendoor.org.uk<http://www.theopendoor.org.uk> or using the FREEPOST form from the newsletter.

Subject to comments received during this consultation, The Open Door aim to submit a change of use application to the council later in the autumn.  If successful, they plan to start running a full events programme early in 2015.

Kind regards
The Open Door team

 


 


 


Edited by CapitAl, 24 September 2014 - 08:59 PM.


#22 JMS

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 08:45 AM

ahhh.... the old incremental approach...



#23 JMS

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 09:00 AM

I see that KICC have changed planning consultants.

 

The previous one certainly did not help their case. Roger will do a much better job. The incremental approach being proposed (which will undoubtedly change over time if permission is granted) is a sensible approach from KICC's perspective.

 

It will be very important for the community to organise itself and come together.



#24 Fang

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:28 AM

From what I have seen, the 'modernisation' of 25 CR. has done nothing to improve its suitability as a 'Hub' for community events. Its seems aimed at preparing the building to become regular place of worship for KICC members from across SW and SE London.

 

What puzzles me is how they can justify speculatively spending millions of pounds of charitable income on a modernisation, in the hope that at some point they will secure planning permission enabling them to legitimately use it.



"This is what we find, this is what we find, the hope that springs eternal, springs right up your behind."

#25 Trux

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 02:01 PM

From what I have seen, the 'modernisation' of 25 CR. has done nothing to improve its suitability as a 'Hub' for community events. Its seems aimed at preparing the building to become regular place of worship for KICC members from across SW and SE London.

 

What puzzles me is how they can justify speculatively spending millions of pounds of charitable income on a modernisation, in the hope that at some point they will secure planning permission enabling them to legitimately use it.

I suppose they have reasonable expectations of getting a D2+D1 license, seeing as the planning depts around London are either gutted, gutless or simply overwhelmed by developers with deep pockets.

 

As JMS says, stinks of an incremental approach where the worship element is the thin part of the wedge. Pretty soon the "community hub" bit will be a once a week cafe for pensioners type thing and all the weddings and social events and whatnot will be sourced from within the KICC community.



#26 Fang

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 05:52 PM

I see that KICC have changed planning consultants.

 

The previous one certainly did not help their case. Roger will do a much better job. The incremental approach being proposed (which will undoubtedly change over time if permission is granted) is a sensible approach from KICC's perspective.

 

It will be very important for the community to organise itself and come together.

JMS, you seem to be pretty clued up on this sort of thing. Have you considered getting in touch with the Cinema Camapaign? I know they are gearing up for the forthcoming battle and will need all the help they can get.



"This is what we find, this is what we find, the hope that springs eternal, springs right up your behind."

#27 charlie

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 08:51 AM

Thanks for posting CapitAl.

 

 

I suppose they have reasonable expectations of getting a D2+D1 license, seeing as the planning depts around London are either gutted, gutless or simply overwhelmed by developers with deep pockets.

 

As JMS says, stinks of an incremental approach where the worship element is the thin part of the wedge. Pretty soon the "community hub" bit will be a once a week cafe for pensioners type thing and all the weddings and social events and whatnot will be sourced from within the KICC community.

 

 

Couldn't agree more Trux. This is a church for KICC's no. 2 Pastor Dipo Oluyemi and the rest is lip service to obtain the desired and much needed D1 planning use so that KICC can hold their revenue raising events i.e educational, empowerment and business conferences and church services. 

 

Did everyone get a copy of the KICC newsletter/survey through the post yesterday?  17,000! - for a small community based campaign we should be flattered - we've clearly made an impression.


Edited by charlie, 26 September 2014 - 08:53 AM.


#28 Norwood lad

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 10:13 AM

Key test to see if this consultation is nothing but a sham to tick a planning box is for everyone to tell them, fine have your community uses but nobody but KICC wants religious services being run from the only D2 building of substance left in the area. Hands up if you think KICC will drop the religious element. Hmm.

 

By the way , hello to the newly registered senior KICC members who have recently joined up in various local forums. Shame they are only doing it to one step the local campaigns and not actually engaging with anybody.



#29 Trux

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 02:23 PM

Thanks for posting CapitAl.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more Trux. This is a church for KICC's no. 2 Pastor Dipo Oluyemi and the rest is lip service to obtain the desired and much needed D1 planning use so that KICC can hold their revenue raising events i.e educational, empowerment and business conferences and church services. 

 

And make no mistake, KICC is all about business and making money - they are in fact quite proud of the fact as in their eyes making loads of money equates to being an extra special doubleplusgood Christian. Who gives a monkey about the local communities - not these jokers.

 

With that in mind I can see the Tory *&%^$ in Bromley council being quite happy to accommodate them as they do share many traits - greed, individualism and so on.

 

edited to add: seems that their planned Rainham mega-church had much the same issue as the CP one. They expected thousands of people to show up but weren't too keen on providing for parking spaces as they "assured people that they would encourage car-sharing and use coaches".....http://norfolkunity....race-until.html


Edited by Trux, 27 September 2014 - 02:29 PM.


#30 Fang

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 02:59 PM

Will the responses/results of the KICC survey be assessed by an independent organisation?



"This is what we find, this is what we find, the hope that springs eternal, springs right up your behind."





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