170 replies to this topic

[phil solo]

Coincidentally a post on London Reconnections tonight states that TfL are tendering for 10 more tram sets to run an enhanced Elmers End to Therapia Lane service, which perhaps will become the 'missing' Route 4.

Idea is probably to get spare/refurbished trams from Europe rather than build any more of the current type, so we may get something like the kit used in Warsaw or Nuremberg, the manufacturers of which are on the Tramlink shortlist.

One interesting possibility is that we will get the trams originally destined for Edinburgh. Although the trams are built or nearly ready, a monumental cock-up by the company set up to run them has resulted in problems, delays, and a big legal dispute with the contractor building the tracks, such that the tram network itself won't be ready until at least 2014 and probably later, leaving the nice new tram units wasting away with no track to run on (there isn't even a depot to store them in yet!!!)

"Selling them on" to Croydon would seem a sensible move, IMO, provided TfL can get a decent knock-down deal and the trams themselves are suitable for the infrastructure in Croydon - the Edinburgh ones are 50% longer, so tight corners might be problematic, though they are split into multiple smaller articulated sections (a bit like the new Overground trains) rather than the single "bendy" in the middle of the Croydon trams.

Edited by phil solo, 24 March 2011 - 11:24 PM.

[bawheid]

If you mean the one on the corner of Church Road that's actually another Arqiva transmitter tower carrying Channel 5's analogue signal, back-up for BBC1, BBC2, ITV and Ch4 analogue in case CP Tower fails, some commercial FM radio (Capital, Heart, KissFM etc.) and a couple of DAB Radio blocks (incl. Capital, Heart & Kiss again)
[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that up, as there's a BT building I assumed it was something to do with phones. Bizarre that I struggle to pick up certain radio stations even though I'm about 100 metres from the transmitter.

[Spike]

I have been told by other "transport nerds" that the 'Crystal Palace' destination boards and route indicator have been pre-programmed into the tram display systems for several years. Crystal Palace to Croydon is Route 5, apparently. As there is, currently, no Route 4, it is interesting to speculate what other potential route that might be.

Dunno, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the original destination boards included Streatham Underground Station

[phil solo]

Dunno, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the original destination boards included Streatham Underground Station

Streatham doesn't have an Underground station

[Spike]

Exactly! They were obviously looking way into the future. I think there some other weird and wonderful destination signs too.

[ChewderOde]

I quite like the cosmopolitan feel of the tram running up to the palace (even through the park borders) and linking into the croydon network - but for what it will cost and the aggro attached to getting it in place let alone the timescales, I would think a few more (like any) direct trains to Easty Croyders from C Palace would suffice

[phil solo]

I quite like the cosmopolitan feel of the tram running up to the palace (even through the park borders) and linking into the croydon network - but for what it will cost and the aggro attached to getting it in place let alone the timescales, I would think a few more (like any) direct trains to Easty Croyders from C Palace would suffice

It does seem silly that to go two relatively close stops you have to make a change. A better direct service would be nice

That too could end up being an expensive undertaking though. East Croydon has few, if any spare train 'paths' because of a bottleneck between there and the far end of the Selhurst carriage sidings. That's why there's only about 1 train a day that goes direct from CYP to ECR. It might mean swapping some of the services that go via Norbury & Selhurst onto the Gipsy Hill line instead rather than adding extra ones. They might end up having to go out to South Croydon or Purley to turn round as well, given pressure on platforms at East Croydon station itself.

Unless and until Windmill Bridge Junction gets (extensively and expensively) rebuilt with extra track capacity (not currently planned) and East Croydon Station is expanded (I think there is a plan for this somewhere) regular direct services are a bit of a long shot.

On balance I suspect the Tramlink extension is still likely to work out the cheaper option.

Edited by phil solo, 31 March 2011 - 12:39 PM.

[ChewderOde]

Thank you for that well crafted, well thought out and well informed response.

Phil Solo IS the Oracle on all things public transport it seems! - all hail the Phil!

[Norwood lad]

Boris puts tram extension 'back on the map'
Wednesday, June 29, 2011
Croydon Advertiser


A NEW feasibility study into extending trams to Crystal Palace has been launched by Transport for London (TfL).

But Mayor of London Boris Johnson has made it clear there is no money available to actually build anything yet.

Mr Johnson announced in March that the extension, which he abandoned shortly after he came to power in 2008, was back on.

In answer to a question asked at the London Assembly last week by Croydon and Sutton member Steve O'Connell, the mayor said: "TfL is reviewing the feasibility of the Tramlink extension to Crystal Palace, as well as how this could form part of a wider package of potential extensions to areas such as Bromley and Sutton."

He told Mr O'Connell a new study was needed – despite work done when Labour's Ken Livingstone was mayor – because of transport changes, including the arrival of London Overground to Crystal Palace and the increase in tram frequencies on other parts of the network.

The feasibility study is expected to be completed by the middle of next year when, the mayor said, it would be decided whether an application for powers to build an extension would be made.

But he added: "There is currently no funding for any extensions to the network and this funding would have to be secured before a project could proceed."

Mr O'Connell said he believed the mayor's announcement was a step forward. He added: "I think the extension is back on the map."

[Palacegirl]

Boris puts tram extension 'back on the map'
Wednesday, June 29, 2011
Croydon Advertiser


A NEW feasibility study into extending trams to Crystal Palace has been launched by Transport for London (TfL).

But Mayor of London Boris Johnson has made it clear there is no money available to actually build anything yet.

Mr Johnson announced in March that the extension, which he abandoned shortly after he came to power in 2008, was back on.

In answer to a question asked at the London Assembly last week by Croydon and Sutton member Steve O'Connell, the mayor said: "TfL is reviewing the feasibility of the Tramlink extension to Crystal Palace, as well as how this could form part of a wider package of potential extensions to areas such as Bromley and Sutton."

He told Mr O'Connell a new study was needed – despite work done when Labour's Ken Livingstone was mayor – because of transport changes, including the arrival of London Overground to Crystal Palace and the increase in tram frequencies on other parts of the network.

The feasibility study is expected to be completed by the middle of next year when, the mayor said, it would be decided whether an application for powers to build an extension would be made.

But he added: "There is currently no funding for any extensions to the network and this funding would have to be secured before a project could proceed."

Mr O'Connell said he believed the mayor's announcement was a step forward. He added: "I think the extension is back on the map."

they should stuff the plans for the trams but put the funds into the CP station refurbishment!!! Now there's a plan...

[Woodvale]

The first of the six new trams ordered from Stadler has now been delivered to Tramlink - see the London Reconnections website. One of the comments added to the article suggests that the new Elmers End-Therapia Lane service will effectively be the Crystal Palace service ready and waiting for when the extension is built.

[charlie]

After the public consultation, the preferred route was "through my house", something I wasn't totally overjoyed about, especially since I found this out through a glossy leaflet rather tham any form of direct communication.

I can understand why people would like this to go ahead, but for the residents of the only building likely to be demolished to make way for the tramline this whole process has been a nightmare. We're all first time buyers who were planning to live in the building for a couple of years and then move on up the chain, however the arrival of the tram meant that the building was going to be subject to compulsory purchase and then demolition, making it all but impossible to sell. We then had a couple of years of limbo until the plan was scrapped (just as the recession was kicking in making it hard to sell), and if the plan is suddenly resurrected then we'll all have another 2-3 years of being stuck here until the building is flattened. I didn't buy a basement backing onto a railway line so I could live in it for 6 years, and the thought of not getting out for another 3 is pretty depressing.

I don't particularly want to oppose a plan that would be good for the area, but if TfL start screwing me around again then I'm going to have to put myself firmly in the 'No' camp.

No sooner does Ken say he will bring the tram to CP then Boris has second thoughts after cancelling it and he too wants to bring the tram to CP.

Now all we need is for Ken to say he will make sure CP train station gets its refurb to make Boris knock some heads together at Tfl London to start the long overdue works

http://www.thisiscro...il/article.html
Mayor Boris Johnson pledges to extend Croydon Tramlink to Crystal Palace

TRAMS are to be extended to Crystal Palace - Mayor of London Boris Johnson announced today (Thursday).

But he would not be drawn on when it might open or how the project would be financed.

Mr Johnson, who visited East Croydon and New Addington this morning, said: "We will now be looking at the whole scheme in detail.

"There will be issues around the timing and we will be looking at ways of financing it."

The Mayor's announcement comes just a fortnight after Labour's Mayoral candidate Ken Livingstone pledged that restoring the Crystal Palace link would be his number one priority if he is elected as Mayor in May next year.

Detailed plans for an extension were drawn up in Mr Livingstone's time as Mayor but were abandoned by Mr Johnson when was elected in 2008.

He claimed then there was no money available for the scheme.

Mr Johnson would also not say whether the route approved under Mr Livingstone's regime from South Norwood and up Anerley Hill, using part of Crystal Palace park to Crystal Palace parade, would form the basis on his own scheme.

Standing in front of a tram at East Croydon, symbolically bearing a "Crystal Palace" destination board, Mr Johnson said: "Travelling on the tram today, I know what a marvellous mode of transport it is."

Extending the system was important and Mr Johnson paid tribute to the lobbying campaigning in Croydon, which he said has been by local London Assembly member, Steve O'Connell aimed at persuading him to look again at the extension.

He said: "Croydon plays a huge part in London's economy and we want to help build on that."

Mr O'Connell said: "I am delighted Boris has approved the extension.

"He has made the announcement and it is now up to people to get on with it."

Will the tramlink extension happen? Has Mike Lion moved yet??? Boris' manifesto pledge for Improving and expanding suburban rail:

"Although we have one of the most extensive underground train systems in the world, there are many parts ofLondon – particularly south of the Thames – that are ill-served by the network, or indeed not served at all. Thisis why I completed the East London line, and am building the New South London Line to link the East LondonLine with Clapham Junction by the end of this year, so creating a new orbital railway for London.I will go further, developing a series of extensions of the underground, the Overground and DLR rail networksto reach out to new parts of London. Specifically:

- Increase the capacity of the East London line by upgrading it to 5 carriage trains by 2014.

- Work to extend the DLR from Lewisham to Bromley, followed by a tram from Beckenham to make anorbital rail loop.

- Develop a Tramlink extension to Crystal Palace."

Edited by charlie, 07 May 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[kibitzer]

Too much rabbit and not enough movement on this plan - since I can remember say in 1994 there have been murmurs of Tramlink coming to CP - I wish they would just get on with it.

[Axean]

But it appears that the Con/Lib Government sees the funding of relatively small transport infrastructure projects as good way to get economy moving. Last autumn Osborne announced funding for a bundle of transport projects, with the aim of pumping money into the economy, while at the same time providing infrastructure. This attitude improves the chances of the tramlink happening, but my instinct is that it is still unlikely.

[Summit Lover]

No money for the tramlink it seems...

http://insidecroydon...ace/#more-10199