11 replies to this topic

[Uncle Wilf]

This hasn't gone as far as causing sleepless nights or anything like that but can anyone tell me - what is in the middle of Royal Circus at the top of Lansdowne Hill?

[croesus]

RachelF asked this last year. I replied at the time, but the forum seems to have lost the reply (naughty forum!). Google has a copy though, so it must have gone recently - perhaps in the Great Downtime of a couple of weeks ago.

Here's their entry in the Charity Commission website: THE TONGE HOUSES THE PORTAL HOME FOR LADIES

"ALMSHOUSES BELONGING TO THE CHARITY TO BE USED FOR THE ACCOMMODATION OF RESIDENTS WHO SHALL BE POOR SPINSTERS, WIDOWS OR DIVORCED LADIES WHO ARE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH"

So there you go.

[Uncle Wilf]

Thanks for that.
Hadn't realised it had already been asked.

How fascinating though. I've had to ask Mrs Uncle Wilf to drive round it several times to try and work it out.
It must be a fine peice of architecture if its an almshouse (anyone checked the ones in Penge?)... but you can't really see it through the foliage.

[RachelF]

I was told by a local that the original house was destroyed by a bomb in WWII (causing all the houses in the area to jump up a few cm, apparently). Certainly, what's there now doesn't look Victorian, although I suppose it could be pre-war if that anecdote isn't correct.

In the 1881 census, the Portal family were living at Tonge House on York Crescent. This clearly ties in somehow, but it's not on the Royal Circus. On an old map of the area, York Cresent was the York Hill end of Knolly's Road. However, on teh 1901 census, it's listed as being on the Royal Circus.

Another local intimiated that the ladies housed by the Portal Trust were of ill-repute, but he may have been embroidering the story a bit!

This site has some more information about the Royal Circus, plus ltos of interesting photos of Norwood streets:

http://www.ideal-hom...n-to-suburb.htm

"The most ambitious development scheme in West Norwood was Royal Circus, which, with its spokes and outer wheel, was intended to fill the space between Canterbury Grove and Leigham Vale. The projectors, John Wilson and Allen Perring, learnt the same painful lesson as Davidson Smith at Beulah Spa: that the public taste was leaving crescents and circuses behind, and looking only for detached or semi-detached villas. Royal Circus was a complete failure."

Edited by RachelF, 14 November 2005 - 02:36 PM.

[lucysmith]

Royal Circus is on Stanford's map of 1862 see http://www.mappalond...ast/norwood.htm
Doesn't look like there were any buildings in the middle at this time.

[RachelF]

I was talking to one of the trustees of the Portal Trust the other day, and apparently it was (probably) built in the 1930s with money donated from the then Lady Portal. So the bomb theory is piffle! As indeed is the slur on the residents' reputations!

[DavidM]

I was told by a local that the original house was destroyed by a bomb in WWII (causing all the houses in the area to jump up a few cm, apparently). Certainly, what's there now doesn't look Victorian, although I suppose it could be pre-war if that anecdote isn't correct.

In the 1881 census, the Portal family were living at Tonge House on York Crescent. This clearly ties in somehow, but it's not on the Royal Circus. On an old map of the area, York Cresent was the York Hill end of Knolly's Road. However, on teh 1901 census, it's listed as being on the Royal Circus.

I have a photo of the original Tonge House taken in 1904: its looks unmistakably Victorian. There isn't enough detail to show exactly where it was but Royal Circus looks likely. I can confirm that part of the Portal family lived there: my Great Grandfather HJ Portal was born there in 1845. Another part of the family is still living in North Hampshire having sold [I believe] their Banknote Printing business to De La Rue.

[RachelF]

I have a photo of the original Tonge House taken in 1904: its looks unmistakably Victorian. There isn't enough detail to show exactly where it was but Royal Circus looks likely. I can confirm that part of the Portal family lived there: my Great Grandfather HJ Portal was born there in 1845. Another part of the family is still living in North Hampshire having sold [I believe] their Banknote Printing business to De La Rue.

Would love to see the photo. Not living off the Royal Circus anymore but still very interested.
The Tonge House branch of your family seem to have been wine merchants.

[James]

You can upload your photo to Virtual Norwood Wiki
http://wiki.virtualn.../Special:Upload

Images can be seen here
http://wiki.virtualn...ecial:Newimages

You could also make a start on the page about the Royal Circus
http://wiki.virtualn...om/Royal_Circus

[DavidM]

Well, just above where I'm typing there are two buttons 'Insert Image' and 'Insert Media' but they both want URLs - I haven't got any .

I've tidied up the picture a bit which is showing its age somewhat. I've had a look at the Uploading Instructions and need to be a bit more familiar with the business so ... Rachel, I notice you have an email address. I'll send it that way while I learn the ropes here. Anyone else want to see it?

[RachelF]

Well, just above where I'm typing there are two buttons 'Insert Image' and 'Insert Media' but they both want URLs - I haven't got any .

I've tidied up the picture a bit which is showing its age somewhat. I've had a look at the Uploading Instructions and need to be a bit more familiar with the business so ... Rachel, I notice you have an email address. I'll send it that way while I learn the ropes here. Anyone else want to see it?

Thanks very much, David. I set up Flickr account so that I can post pictures on here.
Flickr

[fiddler]

I always wondered what was behind the foliage as I walked up from West Norwood on my way home from school - now i know 40 years later!