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#1 richardthevet

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 01:59 PM

Live in West Norwood and need two sash windows replacing. Any recommendations?

#2 croesus

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 02:04 PM

We used SashPro in Thornton Heath for ours a few years back. They use a cunning system to prevent rattles and drafts, and I'm pleased with the results. As I recall they weren't the cheapest we talked to, but they weren't super-expensive either.

#3 Bond

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 02:22 PM

We're having our windows refurbished by Sash Smart on the 2nd of March - will let you know how they are if you can wait that long ! When they came round and gave us the quote I was very impressed by their professionalism and it didn't seem to us that they were trying to bamboozle us with the esoteric mysteries of windoe replacement !

#4 RachelF

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 02:23 PM

Bear in mind that, by law, you either need to get someone who is FENSA approved or have someone from the council to inspect them after they have been replaced.

http://www.fensa.co.uk/what.html
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#5 HeadGardener

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 08:58 PM

When we wanted to convert a picture window back into a sash (some of the original fittings were still there) we got quotes from several companies who were advertising in 'Living South' and then used Draught Busters. They were not the cheapest to quote but nor were they the dearest - we could have paid over twice as much. They seem to have done an OK job and have since done lots of work for neighbours.

#6 Dazza

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 09:54 AM

If you have any queries FENSA have an enquiry email service enquiries@fensa.org.uk depending where the sashes are situated there are only several designs that conform to building regulations if you are replacing with a standard UPVC replacement (push out windows) Dazza
Your obviously mistaken me with someone who gives a fig

#7 charlie

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 12:34 PM

If you are changing the look/design of your windows I would also be concerned with getting planning approval. Check whether you are in a conservation area as well.

As for refurbishing original sash windows you needn't worry about using a FENSA approved company or getting Building Control approval.

However, it appears from the Building Regs guidance note that any total replacement must be by a FENSA approved installer or else you need Building Regs approval particularly where a replacement window is not of the same type as the one being replaced. ie. crittal ( metal) or wood to Upvc or powder coated aluminium.

It must comply with the relevant sections of the Building Regulations.

I think ( but you would need to check this out), if the replacement window is of the same type, ie. timber sash, as the one being replaced special care must be taken with such replacements to ensure that the new window design will not fail to meet the regulations to a greater degree. Local Authority duty building control officers are always willing to discuss these matters infomally on the telephone.

Also, note, any structural alterations will require building regs approval.

PS In my experience not all FENSA approved companies are up to scratch ( do your own research) and those that have a big share of the domestic market often have very bad reputations in the professional market.


PPS AND, if you are in a period house please please keep the original timber sashes.

PPS FENSA certificates/Building Regs approval is the common query from purchasers lawyers when buying a house so it is worth ensuring you do it properly.

#8 duckec01

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 02:07 PM

Just as a footnote to the previous post. Planning permission would only be required if you live in a flat or a house that is listed. Even in a flat if you are replacing like for like, ie identical materials and sections permission, would usually not be required.

#9 charlie

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 02:55 PM

Good point about listed buildings.

To clarify planning permission is always required if the building is listed. It is against the law to make changes/ alterations with permission.

My undertanding is that if you live in a flat as opposed to a house you will also require planning permission even if the building is not listed or in a conservation area because flats do not have permitted development rights. Windows can however be replaced without planning permission if on a strict like for like basis. This would usually include upgrading from single glazed to double glazed aslong as you keep the general arrangement the same.

Houses have permitted development rights and you can change your windows without planning permission.

The best thing to remember is that if you are in any doubt just make a call to your local friendly duty planning officer who will give you free advice on the phone and also provide you with advice in writing if you so require.

#10 Steve Palmer

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 12:21 AM

Charlie is very nearly spot on, but if you have any questions regarding planning I would suggest you start here http://www.planningportal.gov.uk

I deal with planners all of the time and frankly every planning department in the country is understaffed and unable to recruit enough qualified and competent planners. Many of those working in your local planning department are from overseas as a consequence. So they, perhaps through no fault of thier own, don't really have much time to spare to provide pre application advice and even when they do it isn't necessarily correct. Sadly if they give you bad advice they are not liable for it either.

Houses may have permitted development rights, but not all do. They can be, and often are, withdrawn by the local authority issuing an article 4 direction. I have had a number of clients in recent years who have faced the prospect of thier nice new extensions being demolished because builders or "surveyors" (not chartered surveyors I hasten to add) have told them that it is permitted development and they don't need planning permission when in fact those rights had been withdrawn. Whilst in most, but not all, cases we have managed to win appeals it has still cost time and money to do so.

There are no permitted development rights for flats.

Whether a house or a flat you will need consent if it the building is listed or if it is a conservation area.

Building Regs are a different matter entirely. Quite simply if you are replacing windows you must either obtain consent from the building control department (or a private approved inspector) or have the windows installed by someone who is authorised to self certify compliance (in the case of windows that is a FENSA registered installer). So if, whether sash or casement widnows, you leave the frame in place and replace the sliding sash or opening casement only there is no need to comply with the building regulations.

#11 Dazza

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 12:49 PM

If you require any further clarification regards FENSA I regular meet with Graham Hinnet the Chief Exec of FENSA & regular meet the ODPM who look after the building regulations. Dazza
Your obviously mistaken me with someone who gives a fig

#12 duckec01

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 02:14 PM

[quote name='Steve Palmer' date='Feb 9 2005, 12:21 AM']

'Whether a house or a flat you will need consent if it the building is listed or if it is a conservation area.'

The issue of permission being required to change the windows on a house in a conservation area will depend on the local authority's interpretation of the regulations. At the 'understaffed' planning department I work at, the view that is taken is permission is not required. So it would be safest to request a written view from them if they do pre-application advice.

#13 charlie

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Posted 09 February 2005 - 02:23 PM

Totally agree with you. As a construction professional I also deal with planners all the time and I certainly know a number of inner london authourities that have very heavy work loads but they have always found the time to give me advice on the phone and always encourage pre-application submissions for a written pre-application advice. This can be done my e-mail.

I find Mr. Palmer's comments offensive to Planners and his advice slightly patronising.

#14 richardthevet

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 01:53 PM

Thanks everyone for your help. I didn't realise it was so complicated!

I am going to get a few quotes so can anyone recommend any other companies?

Thanks,

Rich

#15 Steve Palmer

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Posted 18 February 2005 - 08:16 PM

Charlie,
Having a different view to another professional and expressing it is neither insulting nor patronising, indeed it is pretty much a normal part of professional discourse. I am suprised that you were offended, but since you were I unreservedly apologise. I certainly did not intend to patronise or offend planners, particularly since many of my Chartered Surveyor colleagues are also Chartered Town Planners, or anyone else.

But my comments still stand.

When it comes down to it local authority planners may offer good advice, they may not. In my experience the advice is variable. Like the rest of us they are human. Since the advice they give (whether in writing or not) is not binding on the authority and since they cannot be sued for giving negligent advice I think it is as well for the layperson to be aware of that.

You may disagree, that is your perogative. You can try to persuade me that your view is correct in the normal professional way by citing case law or other authorities if it matters to you. Don't take this personally, because it isn't meant to be personal, but I don't mind whether you think I am wrong or not. If I give advice it is because I sincerely believe it to be good advice. If I give negligent advice, even on this site and free of charge, I can be sued for it (and if I lose my PII would have to pay out even if I had no money). I can also be fined £5000 and be prevented from practicing by RICS. So I hope you will at least appreciate that when I express a view here it is one I have given some thought to and think is proper because failure to do that could have dire consequences for.

I hope you can respect that, if not me.