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#16 Retired Member 1

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 02:30 PM

now now kids behave!

nobody stops anyone from organising drinks outside VN should VN risk to enter into trouble ....

p.s. if M&S sees there is a sizeable gay community they open a shop, immediately by follow by a new John Lewis ... of course!

Edited by LSPE, 15 August 2007 - 02:31 PM.

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#17 James

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 02:31 PM

Well why not... I had a great time at Purple in The Park on the jubilee weekend.
(n.b. you don't have to be gay to go to one of these events, and they are so well organised)

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#18 Elmo

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 02:34 PM

Hmmmm.... I guess you're right LPSE. I was thinking of it as a cultural issue rather than a safety one.

But I thought there were a clutch of gay-friendly pubs in CP including the Mansion. What about Los Torreros and the White Hart...?

PS - this was in reponse to post #7... the topic took off in the time it too me to reply!

Edited by Elmo, 15 August 2007 - 02:44 PM.

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#19 kitkat

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 02:45 PM

Been following the responses to LSPE's post with interest!

I've always found West Norwood and CP to be quite gay-friendly, and even used to frequent Southern Fried when it was in its hay day (who can ever forget the delights of 123 Night? Not me!). I've never had any hassle when out with my gf or any other gay friends, and one female couple we know found themselves warmly welcomed into the CP parents-and-baby group(s) when they had a child.

We mostly drink or eat in the Rosendale or Lancaster's, and do tend towards mixed places rather than gay venues (and Cafe Lava was NEVER open when we went past...). Mind you, if something opened we'd probably want to show our support. And if the Mother Ship opened a store.... well!

#20 Sedgley Warrior

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 03:00 PM

Yay! An interesting topic at last … and I'm straight! Well, almost…

#21 Rosehip

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 03:00 PM

Rosehip where have you been Cafe Lava RIP!!!:-)


:-) No, I do realise that Cafe Lava has long since closed :-)

I was just pointing out that this isn't the first time that the topic of gay friendly places has been discussed on VN and that, deep in the archive, in a thread maybe called Cafe Lava, it is there somewhere.

Edited by Rosehip, 15 August 2007 - 03:04 PM.


#22 Sylvester

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 03:09 PM

This is an interesting topic and not a particularly new idea. There were "gay" pubs when I was growing up in East London (back in the early 1960s) which were also quite popular with young straight people.

As a straight person I don't feel the need to kiss and cuddle my other half in public (but I am getting on a bit, and would probably get funny looks if I did). I do appreciate the point, but suppose there were bars exclusively for different races or nationalities? Most people would object to that! A social mix is best and I would be sad to think that our gay friends felt they needed to go somewhere that straights might feel excluded from.

I am also intrigued as to what makes a pub "gay-friendly"? Explanation required please!
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#23 Retired Member 1

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 03:15 PM

Gay friendly is where either they do not stop gay couples or people to get in (though the legislation has tackled that now) – but this is quite an odd point as how do you “spot” a gay person? However somewhere it happens above all if you get there as a couple. Moreover once I was not allowed (almost) in a gay club because the bouncer decided I was straight …. ! No comment!
Mainly I personally consider a gay-friendly bar where the atmosphere/clientele does not mind 2 people of the same sex holding hands or being affectionate (within the law of course) – as you Sylvester I tend not to do public display of affection but that’s my choice and not related to my sexuality.
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#24 Bosie

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 03:37 PM

Sometimes a pub can just appear gay friendly just because you spot lots of gay people drinking there. It's a bit like a pub being Child friendly or Dog friendly, there doesn't have to be a sign up in the window but if you went in a couple of times and saw a few families in there then you might get a sense that it is probably not the kind of place where people tut loudly in your direction if your toddler chucks its toys out of the pram. Seeing gay people drinking in a place probably means it isn't the regular meeting place of the local 'queer bashing society'.

I also think though that a gay friendly venue can be somewhere that just has a general friendly atmosphere. Sometimes it can be overtly obvious that a pub is gay friendly (a pub in Colliers Wood I used to go to was owned by a gay guy and had a little rainbow flag in the window), other times it is just down to the other customers and staff giving off a friendly inclusive vibe, which luckily for CP is most places.
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#25 gekko

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 04:18 PM

Wow, I can't believe there are two pages on this topic and I've only been away for a couple of meetings!

Okay, here's my take on things, from a gay point of view. First off, I think this is a great thread and a good example of the sort of thing Virtual Norwood should be doing. There are lots of issues that affect gay people, even though we have come so far in the last 20 years. We might want to talk about new developments (e.g. civil partnerships) or places you feel comfortable/uncomfortable being open about your sexuality. There is still plenty of prejudice and whilst I feel completely comfortable being open on this forum, I would maybe feel less comfortable being so in a church for instance.

In terms of bars, we generally prefer to go to non-gay places as they are more relaxed and less cliquey. However, I wouldn't usually feel comfortable holding my partner's hand or kissing her. This isn't really a question of whether that's the sort of thing I 'would want' to do; we all have different levels of tactility. It's more a case of 'could' I do this without being stared at? The other reason for having gay bars is that if you are single, there is less risk of you chatting up a straight person by mistake and the consequences that could bring!! :blink: Of course, this is less of a risk for heterosexual people who are in the majority.

At the end of the day gay people are individuals and form part of many different groups, regardless of our sexuality. However, we probably all have some shared experiences as a result of being gay and forums/groups/bars etc. can be a place to explore that. For the most part being gay is kind of irrelevant to the rest of my life, but everytime I start a new job or meet a new person or join a new group there's an assumption and then you are called to revisit the coming out experience all over again.

Re Cafe Lava, I know this is old ground and I've said it before but you can't and shouldn't try and recreate Soho in Crystal Palace. If you want karaoke, thumping disco/Hi NRG dance etc. you can go to Soho but I think people go out in the Palace to chill out with friends or as a couple. Any gay bar that opened would need look at what was already working in the area and learn from that rather than stereotyping. I wouldn't want a clone of the Candy Bar on my doorstep :P .
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#26 edlee

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 04:26 PM

Hi All,

I've lived in CP for 3 years now and I've definitely noticed the area getting 'gayer' or that is I've noticed more gay couples around - which is great! I think that most of the pubs and eating places are very 'friendly', agreeing with an earlier comment I think the Numidie bar is a good place to feel completely at ease. Never had any trouble though and places we frequent as a couple include White Hart, Mansion, Black Sheep, what was the Bluebottle (forgotten it's name - not my favourite place though), Lorenzos, Tham Nag Thai, Gurkha Cottage - mind you I'm not one for snogging the face off the boyf in public anyway. My partner is a more affectionate type than I am and it would be nice to think you could walk holding hands without receiving some abuse, not sure you could though.

Forget Ego/Southern Pride - it's not very good I'm afraid - maybe new management.

Cafe Lava - went in a few times and had some good old laughs - drinking too much and singing to camp tunes. At one point I remember being taught the dance moves to Brown Girl in the Ring by the owners boyfriend/friend in the middle of the place - oh, the shame!! I always thought it was a shame not more people went in but I do think it could have been better run.

Anyway, I'm up for a CP Pride, you'll need to provide a large beer tent before I get into my Boney M dancinn' trousers again though :P

#27 Dazza

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:53 PM

Not sure if I have ever been in a non gay friendly pub ever how do you know if you are in one of them.

Pubs are for everyone from all walks of life. I'm sure the guvnor of a pub doesnt care who is paying for the drinks just as long as his sorry their till is ringing away.

Mind you most of my mates do not bring their partners to the pub up the Palace so we dont have problems of showing affection in public however even if they did I'm sure none of them would even dream of holding their partners hands in the pub due to the ribbing they would recieve it is not a gay issue I can assure you !

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#28 geronimo

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:25 AM

To be fair, Dazza, I think unless you are gay and have been in a situation which you find uncomfortable because of your sexuality, it's hard to comment on this

#29 Muzza

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:02 PM

You know when you're in a non-gay-friendly pub when you receive homophobic abuse while innocently trying to enjoy a pint. They exist, trust me. (And you don't even have to be gay to experience this.)

On a lighter note... The White Hart has always struck me as an exceptionally gay-friendly venue. (There are some evenings when it feels like the gayest straight bar I've ever been in! :) )

As for the area in general... When I moved here with my boyfriend over three years ago, we thought we were relocating to some ultra-straight suburb. Little did we know! There were at least four other gay couples living on my little street alone, and my neighbours show them exactly the same degree of friendliness as they do any other couple. This is a great place to live!

#30 beefqueen

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:02 PM

Not sure if I have ever been in a non gay friendly pub ever how do you know if you are in one of them.



I've been to plenty of non-gay friendly pubs in my time, including in the middle of Soho. And regardless of whether the landlord doesn't care, many of the clientele may do.

Mind you most of my mates do not bring their partners to the pub up the Palace so we dont have problems of showing affection in public however even if they did I'm sure none of them would even dream of holding their partners hands in the pub due to the ribbing they would recieve it is not a gay issue I can assure you !

Dazza


I disagree. I'm sure there are many, many people - in CP, in London and in Britain - who couldn't care less about a man and woman holding hands, but would be up in arms should two men or two women do likewise. At least in a gay/gay-friendly bar, you're less likely to find these people and - should someone who cares inadvertently stumble in - they're more likely to be challenged if they start getting lippy.