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Incident in Beaulieu Heights Park


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#16 Dazza

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 09:12 AM

Amazed this didnt make the news but the I suppose because there was no fatality it was not worthy.

This park & the old toilets opposite the all saints church has been notorious for the cruising for as long as I remember.

CCTV & added security is required to reclaim this space for everyone to experience not just a minority.

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#17 beefqueen

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 01:31 PM

Good to see that people have things in perspective: a man has been stabbed during a robbery, but all people seem concerned about is that some men use the area for meeting (and doing rude things with) other men. I would have hoped the more worrying thing would have been that people are happy to use knives during robberies, unless the feeling is that, as long as it's only cruisers who are being targeted, it's OK?

If people (park users, local residents) complain to the police about others having sex in public, they'll do something about it. If the police don't receive any complaints, and the men are keeping themselves to themselves, I don't see why people should be so worried about it. It reminds me of all the articles yesterday about Kevin Greening's death: if it had been a heterosexual bondage orgy, no-one would care less. Likewise, if it had been a married couple out dogging who had been stabbed, I think people would be a lot more worried about the knife crime.

I just hope the guy's OK.

#18 Uncle Wilf

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 02:20 PM

Yeah I hope the guy is ok as well. And absolutely - knife crime, once again, rears its ugly head.

But nothing in your post is reflective of anything that has been said in any of the previous posts in the thread so I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly.

The wider context is the reputation and for some experience of the park is seedy and unsafe. That's it.
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#19 Spoon

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 02:21 PM

I think it's a given that people hope the stabbed person is ok. The conversation just moved on into one about the park and local usage of it. As I understood it, anyway.

#20 Retired Member 1

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 03:25 PM

let's hope he is OK

then again if it was an heterosexual cruising area I would have stayed well away from it - but as man (and gay btw) I would not feel at ease jogging/walking in a park that I know is well known for cruising sorry not being prude just think there is a place to do certain things and ain't public!!
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#21 Ziwa

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 04:54 PM

I think beefqueen's post was right on target. The topic started with a potential crime incident and then quickly went on to whether or not its nice that its a gay cruising area - a different point all together. There was an unfortunate linking of 'gay' and 'crime' - that should be called out.

Not that I disagree that a cruising area is rather (sometimes profoundly) unpleasant for those who are not part of that social sector. And because it is marginalized, it is also often correlated with crime. But correlation and cause are quite different.

I'm also not criticising the conversation, which touched on all the reasons residents might be concerned about their park. A good Tavern discussion.

#22 Axean

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 06:34 PM

A separate topic to discuss the use of Beaulieu Heights is needed. We have no idea if the attack was was linked with the parks history of being used for "drinking" and "gay cruising".

I've been told there is a history of homophobic attacks on gay men in that park. A man was kicked to death and robbed in that wood, because he was gay. I assume most of us can remember a couple of years ago a man being filmed on a mobile phone being kicked to death simply because he was gay (somewhere along the southbank). There is a link between gay and crime.
Alcholics are more likely to be violent when compared to the average sober person.

Most people would find this park seedy, and it's history shows it to be unsafe. It isnt a shock to hear about police and ambulances around Beaulieu Heights.

But we don't know why this man was stabbed, and although I have opinions on the park and how it is being used, I'd rather put them in another thread. (I'd much rather see gay men in there than dog walkers destroying the habitat)

There's clearly a desire to discuss the use of this park/wood and if its possible I'd like to see a moderator "split" this thread.

#23 James

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 10:09 PM

Moderator's Note
It would be difficult and perhaps unwelcome to edit/move existing comments on this topic into two distinct topics - one about the incident and another about the park. However, if anyone would like to start a new topic specifically about the park I can see that would make sense.

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#24 Silver

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 06:29 AM

I find it a little disturbing that just when proper interesting coherent intelligent conversation breaks out on the forum on a subject that many people care about (the hi-jacking of a valuable green space for non park activities) there is always someone who wants to curb it with some veiled accusation that we are all anti gay! There is only so much that someone can say about a stabbing (which are becoming commonplace)

Of course people on the forum are sorry for the victim. Their suspicions that this stabbing may be gay related are well founded (on past evidence of events) We should not have to be careful around facts.

I am sure that Beefqueen is also sorry for the perpertrators (as I am sure that they would have been the product of a dissfunctional society or home!)
and yet she/he failed to mention them!

I don't see why we have to start any other kind of topic. We are mature people discussing what we want in a mature fashion and if enough of the people who bother to post want to steer the topic to include discussion on the park itself, I think it is quite seemly and if gay people are such an integral part of the park, then I guess they will get discussed - just as hetrosexual dogging in Crystal Palace Park would be discussed if it happened in daylight. Our discussion soes not seem to have upset the one poster who said they were gay so our comments can't be offensive - and why would they be. Just because someone lincludes hetrosexuals in their friend base, it doesn't mean they like every single thing they do!

Edited by Silver, 05 June 2008 - 06:35 AM.


#25 iclipper

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 06:59 AM

well said Silver.

#26 Uncle Wilf

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 07:25 AM

Absolutely Silver.
I think there is some hypersensitivity going on.

It is legitimate to describe what goes on in the park as an abuse of the park and it is legitimate to mention that as a possible context of the assault - not making any assualt in any way justified. If individuals want to choose to be offended for reasons known only to themselves, that is their business but I fail to see why that needs to be accomodated.

The victim is no less a victim whatever their orientation may or not be and if you read this thread the victim was never labelled as anything one way or the other.

Edited by Uncle Wilf, 05 June 2008 - 07:25 AM.

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#27 Borgus

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 08:14 AM

The park has had a seedy and intimidating reputation for decades and, as such, was off limits to my daughter when she was growing up.

The fact that homosexuals have used it over the years is a relevant issue, as that has also attracted the more evolutionary challenged elements of society to prey on them.

It is a public park to be enjoyed by everyone. Parents should not have to worry about their children stumbling across sexual encounters, drug use or alcoholism and any member of the community should not have to feel intimidated by using it.

Clean it up. Lock it up. Give it back to the community at large.
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#28 Dazza

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 08:32 AM

Agree with you Borgus entirely perhaps the people who agree with this seedy practice should let them use their property for their trysts.

I dont care wot persuasion you are parks are meant to be enjoyed by everyone it just seems some people enjoy it a little to much.

Hope the guy is Ok as well !

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#29 Retired Member 1

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 09:16 AM

Fully agree with Silver and definitely I am not anti-gay!!!
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#30 Muzza

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 09:36 AM

I cannot believe the hysteria about gay men cruising that seems to be breaking out on this thread. Are you really all so scared of the thought of homosexuals looking for a bit of fun in the bushes? Let's remember that the park is only *rumoured* to be a cruising ground. I've cut through there a couple of times and all I've ever seen are straight couples walking their dogs and a couple of harmless drunks - no mythical, terrifying, predatory homosexuals. I mean, seriously, is the rumour of such a thing really enough to stop you going into the park?