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CP Triangle - Regeneration and Planning Matters


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#196 GipsyHill

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 01:33 PM

Question.   Do you think if the ZRG building encompassed the CP bus station (as being suggestion by Arup), or is located on the TopSite, it should be considered on lines of an "out of town” development, or something that is "in" or “adjoining” Crystal Palace District Centre?

 

When you get off the bus at the Crystal Palace "bus stop" on the Parade (or tram stop, if it arrives), have you arrived “at” Crystal Palace Town?  Or do you think you then walk to the “nearby town” of Crystal Palace? 

 

Could the the day-time and night-time restaurants, shops and services and bus interchange stops on the CP Parade be considered part of Crystal Palace District Centre?

 

Attached is Pg27 of “Local_Plan_Draft_Policies_and_Designations_Consultation” (issued for comments) in the draft LBB Local Plan, where it seems to be designating LBBs part Crystal Palace on the Parade as one of the 73 separate "Neighbourhood Centre/Parades across the borough" and not part of “District Centre” of Crystal Palace Town.

 

Yet the Shopping Centre Hierarchy (on pg 166) notes: 

 

DISTRICT CENTRES – Beckenham, Crystal Palace, Penge, Petts Wood, West Wickham

NEIGHBOURHOOD CENTRES AND PARADES – 73 local parades across the Borough

 

Would the inner/outer London typical "catchment area" of a District Centre include the CP parade shops and the CP bus interchange? 

 

Bromley end date for consultation: 24/03/14 23:59  http://bromley-consu...pdpdc?tab=files

 

GH

Attached Files


Edited by GipsyHill, 22 March 2014 - 01:43 PM.


#197 charlie

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 06:33 PM

Good questions GH.  Have only just started reading the Local Plan Draft Policies and Designations Consultation but have highlighted in bold what I think my answers are at this stage. 

 

What defines a town/district centre? I think Croydon does define the extent/boundaries of the DC in their local plan - they having the major share? Highlights the problem of having a number of boroughs meeting at the Triangle. Common sense tells me that both sides of the 3 roads that make up the Triangle including the shops on The Parade (Lambeth), the Grape and Grain and Cadence (Bromley), and the small parade on Central Hill (Croydon) are all part of the District Centre as defined in the London Plan.

 

Question.   Do you think if the ZRG building encompassed the CP bus station (as being suggestion by Arup), or is located on the TopSite, it should be considered on lines of an "out of town” development, or something that is "in" or “adjoining” Crystal Palace District Centre?  

 

When you get off the bus at the Crystal Palace "bus stop" on the Parade (or tram stop, if it arrives), have you arrived “at” Crystal Palace Town?  Or do you think you then walk to the “nearby town” of Crystal Palace? 

 

Could the the day-time and night-time restaurants, shops and services and bus interchange stops on the CP Parade be considered part of Crystal Palace District Centre? yes

 

Attached is Pg27 of “Local_Plan_Draft_Policies_and_Designations_Consultation” (issued for comments) in the draft LBB Local Plan, where it seems to be designating LBBs part Crystal Palace on the Parade as one of the 73 separate "Neighbourhood Centre/Parades across the borough" and not part of “District Centre” of Crystal Palace Town.

 

Yet the Shopping Centre Hierarchy (on pg 166) notes: 

 

DISTRICT CENTRES – Beckenham, Crystal Palace, Penge, Petts Wood, West Wickham Clearly a contradiction as you have pointed out and should be raised as part of the consultation.

 

NEIGHBOURHOOD CENTRES AND PARADES – 73 local parades across the Borough

 

Would the inner/outer London typical "catchment area" of a District Centre include the CP parade shops and the CP bus interchange? Not sure about the bus interchange but certainly the CP Parade of Shops. ( How does Lambeth define & treat the parade of shops along the parade and those along Westow Hill in their local plan?)

 

Bromley end date for consultation: 24/03/14 23:59  http://bromley-consu...pdpdc?tab=files

 

GH


Edited by charlie, 22 March 2014 - 06:40 PM.


#198 charlie

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 09:09 PM



Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL)

Apparently, the plan is that a meaningful proportion ( percentage) of this will be given to the local community to discharge as they wish. Based on loose calculations of what that percentage might be, Croydon advised that this could add up to £200K to be spent in the Crystal Palace and Upper Norwood area (one of the 16 areas set out in Croydon's Core Strategy) on local infrastructure. Though, until the percentage is announced it's more guesswork and does rely on development being brought forward and delivered.

This has got me thinking about how it potentially might link up with Bromley and Lambeth?

Worth looking at the headlines re: CIL HERE

 

 

Looks like plans for Neighbourhood Forum and Plan are in train and no doubt looking to capitalise on S106 and CIL monies promised by Croydon back in 2012.  Exciting news. Be great to have a coherent vision and plan for SE19 - Crystal Palace.

 

NEIGHBOURHOOD FORUM PLANNED FOR CRYSTAL PALACE

 

MOVES TO SET up a Neighbourhood Forum in Crystal Palace are in the very early stages.

 

Community activist Robert Gibson told News From Crystal Palace:  “Francis Bernstein and I have been looking at how we can literally put Crystal Palace on the map.

 

“A group of like-minded cross-borough residents has got together and asked communities adviser Locality to assist us in exploring how to develop a cross-borough neighbourhood plan for the area.

 

“The idea is to make Crystal Palace not just a state of mind but a physical reality with its common needs and priorities recognised. 

 

“The neighbourhood plan would be structured to facilitate closer cross-borough co-operation for Crystal Palace, an idea that seems to have gained traction with the local community and politicians representing all five of our boroughs – as voiced at a number of recent public events. 

 

“We would be delighted to hear from anybody who is interested in getting involved in this innovative project which designed to enhance community cohesion and engagement and appreciation for the rich contribution all five boroughs make to the area.”

 

News of the initiative came in a question from Green party member Darren Johnson during a Mayor’s question time at County Hall.

 

Darren Johnson asked the mayor: “Local residents are in the process of setting up a Neighbourhood Forum for Crystal Palace, and have secured the support of Locality, the Government’s contractor.

 

“Will you support this endeavour, share the work you are undertaking on planning policies in the area with the forum, and work with the forum on emerging plans for the park and the Strategic Outer London Development Centre (SOLDC)?

 

Boris Johnson responded: “We will share the work we are undertaking on planning policies and regeneration opportunities in the area and will engage with the Forum on emerging park plans and the SOLDC.”

 

Darren Johnson told NFCP: “If there’s one lesson the mayor can learn from the latest Crystal Palace Park debacle, it’s that he will achieve much more by working closely in partnership with local people.

 

“I’m glad he is now more open to the Neighbourhood Forum, having dismissed the idea last year, and I will keep pushing him to work more constructively with local residents, community groups and businesses.

 

“I am delighted local people in Crystal Palace are working together to help provide the area with a much stronger voice.”

 

The latest moves follow pledges from politicians of all parties to support more cross-borough participation. (Crystal Palace sits in, or on, the edge of five London boroughs and is the only area in London to do so. There are no areas with four boroughs covering them but some areas have three London boroughs covering them).

 

The forum can be e-mailed at info@cpnf.co.uk


Edited by charlie, 04 July 2014 - 09:11 PM.


#199 charlie

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:56 PM

The consultants have already carried out some initial research into the area and have been talking to "local stakeholders". There will be a proper engagement process in due course. Will post when I hear more as I am sure there are lots of people who would like to feed in their views on and shape the areas they live in too.

 

Crystal Palace Study for the Mayors Office

 

"00 have been commissioned by the GLA to carry out a study into the area south of Crystal Palace Park (Upper Norwood, Aneley and Penge), investigating what is special and important about these neighbourhoods, with the intention of clarifying the area’s identity, and to inform possible ideas and visions for the future. The study will involve local communities, along with the respective boroughs and other key stakeholders, and will develop an engagement process where local people are invited to actively participate in the forming of ideas."


Edited by charlie, 30 July 2014 - 01:57 PM.


#200 Norwood lad

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:59 PM

Let’s hope all these words are followed by action although they can’t do any worse than the last administration who didn’t seem to realise Croydon is a borough and not a town centre stuffed full of regeneration projects.

Croydon's district centres, including 'neglected' South Norwood, set for a makeover

By Croydon Advertiser  |  Posted: August 10, 2014

'NEGLECTED': South Norwood High Street

 
Comments (6)

NEW moves to help the regenerate the borough’s district centres are to get under way next month.

Councillor Toni Letts, the council’s cabinet member for economic development, is to hold a series of meetings with traders and businesses to get ideas of how they feel the areas can be helped to prosper.

Separately, she is planning to meet with larger companies and potential investors to show what the town has to offer, in a drive to attract more inward investment.

One idea the council is thinking about is developing a long-term business planicon1.png for the town centre.

The first of the district centre meetings will take place in Norbury in September, followed by South Norwood in October.

Meetings in other centres like Purley, Coulsdon, New Addington and Upper Norwood will come at later dates.

Cllr Letts said money, some of it from the Mayor of London’s fund set up after the 2011 riots, has already been channelled into London Road, West Croydon.

Public realm improvements to make the area more attractive are planned and this month 45 businesses are being provided with new shop fronts.

She said: “We also have an estate agent now and that is a sign of an area starting to pick up.”

Cllr Letts said district centres were vitally important to the future of the borough and she was determined the council would do what it could to help them thrive.

Cllr Letts said: “We will be going to each district centre to talk to local businesses and leading people in the community about what they want.

“I may have one vision of what I would like to see, but they may have another and I have to find out their views. There has to be a real partnership here.

“How district centres worked 20 or 30 years ago is perhaps not how they should be today.”

Cllr Letts suggested district centres may need to become more of a community hub, with businesses meeting more of the needs of people living in their areas.

She said: “For example, we are a borough with a great many people who don’t go into the town centre very often.”

District centres, she said, should play an important part in catering for their needs in terms of shops and also offering an environment where people could “pop in for a coffee and meet to have a chat”.

Cllr Letts emphasised it was essential that districts shared in the prosperity which developments like the Westfield/Hammerson Partnership’s £1 billion investment in the town centre would bring.

She said South Norwood High Street, in particular, was looking very tired and needed attention.

Her intention was to bring together businesses in the High Street and in neighbouring Portland Road to look at ways of making improvements to the area as a whole.

Cllr Letts said: “I think the district centres have been neglected in the past. We want to stop that.”


Read more at http://www.croydonad...wD8vWBOzBt6s.99


#201 Norwood lad

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 01:51 PM

Whilst its nice the current administration is moving away from the lasts fixation of Croydon City at the expense of the rest of the borough it’s a shame its doesn’t yet extend to CP. Just a fraction of £3m could go a long way in say sprucing up some of the derelict and tatty shopfronts on the triangle for example.

Thornton Heath high street to get £3m facelift

In the money: Labour councillors Toni Letts, left, and Alison Butler with council leader Tony Newman

First published 3 minutes ago in News by Chris Baynes, Reporter

 

Thornton Heath's high street is to receive a facelift after Croydon Council secured £3m funding from the Greater London Authority.

 

Work will start next year on a series of improvements, including to building and shop fronts, after the GLA's London Enterprise Panel approved a bid for the money. 

 

The project will cover a 1km stretch from Thornton Heath Library to Whitehorse Lane roundabout, including the train station and leisure centre.

 

Councillor Tony Newman, leader of the council, said: "Croydon’s regeneration story isn’t just about the town centre. We are determined to breathe new life into our district centres and see that all our residents benefit from Croydon’s growth.

 

"Thornton Heath is a major part of our borough and the perfect example of the sort of place that needs to succeed if Croydon is to as a whole.

 

"This is a significant pot of funding that will help us to do just that, bringing huge benefits and improvements to the area."

The funding, announced at Monday night's cabinet meeting, will be available in April next year. The council said it would consult the community on how it will be spent.



#202 wulfhound

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 02:58 PM

To be fair, Norwood lad, Thornton Heath & South Norwood are in many respects much more in need of this than CP. For all its scruffy edges and random carbuncular developments, CP has a thriving town centre economy with fewer and fewer empty units every year. If the council can succeed in bringing those two town centres up to a similar overall standard to CP in their four year term, that will be a major achievement.



#203 Norwood lad

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 03:49 PM

I understand that Wulfhound but the assumption that CP has done alright for itself therefore doesn’t need any funding is precisely why CP gets very little in the way of any funding.  Of course SN & TH need money spent on them but why then does Croydon council also spend untold millions on any number of initiatives in Croydon town centre. Surely the council should be helping ALL district centres in its borough have a piece of the London pot?

 

Just look at Lambeth, they have spent quite a bit recently on shared space/paving and tree planting in places like GH and West Norwood (as well as the countless millions it always finds for its more glamourous parts of the borough like Brixton and Northern borough district centres) yet nothing on their stretch of CP.



#204 Mawders

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:12 AM

I think CP receiving money ahead of Thornton Heath or South Norwood would be considered as ridiculous as Beckenham receiving funds from Bromley for a spruce up ahead of Penge.  Guess what happened in Bromley...



#205 Norwood lad

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:01 AM

I think CP receiving money ahead of Thornton Heath or South Norwood would be considered as ridiculous as Beckenham receiving funds from Bromley for a spruce up ahead of Penge.  Guess what happened in Bromley...

Ah but Bromley is a law onto itself ;)

 

No one is suggesting CP should receive money ahead of  TH or SN it’s just that no one is batting for CP at all. Most  of this improvement money is coming from London and central government so it’s not robbing TH to pay for CP but just boroughs being smart and actually trying to get money for ALL there town centres rather than have other smarter boroughs in London get money from the central pot.

 

Using the example of almost all the town centres in Lambeth having money spent on them. Westow Hill had the one tree on the Lambeth stretch which was cut down a few years ago. Now in its pot is not a shiny new tree but overgrown mess whereas Lambeth spent over 9 grand on Olive trees for Clapham High St.  You could argue why CP should get it as its doing alright but as well as spending money on GH & WN Lambeth has also spent money on places like Brixton, Clapham and Waterloo amongst other places which are also doing alright for themselves.

 

Croydon are there to help ALL district centres. While it is absolutely right for them to push up SN & TH in priority it should be doing it for all the districts to the North of the borough instead of an inordinate amount of time and money being pushed on Croydon town centre which has had several initiatives and goes at the wider high st pot being promoted by the Mayors office and national government.



#206 Norwood lad

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 04:38 PM

There’s an application for the following Change of Use of Offices in Rochester House, Belvedere Hse to 8 flats

 

14/05049/RESPA | Change of use of units 1, 2, 6 and 7 from Class B1 (a) office to Class C3 dwelling houses to form 6 one bedroom and 2 two bedroom flats (56 day application for prior approval in respect of transport and highways, contamination and flooding risks under Class J Part 3 of the GPDO) | Rochester House 2 Belvedere Road Anerley London SE19 2HL

 

https://searchapplic...l=NHEIW5BT0FZ00

 

Whilst the more people that live on the triangle is generally good for the local town centre economy is it wise converting all the local offices to residential as surely you need day time trade and custom for local businesses that rely on local office workers.

 

The 2 white washed Victorian office buildings at 104 & 106 next to Amphlett Lissimore have in recent times also changed to flats.

Is it wise to get rid of so much office space on the triangle??

 

What do people think?

 

What is odd is Croydon have responded to Bromley saying they have no objection to it but conversely next door at Casa Cuba the owners tried unsuccessfully to convert the upper residential floors back to office as their travel business was expanded but Croydon said no. So it appears local authorities are not bothered about loss of office space and actively discourage new (or reused)  office space.



#207 jbphoto

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 04:42 PM

It's definitely a concern, what with studio space and light industrial premises in the Triangle also being converted into residential. Zoning out potential employers seems foolish.


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#208 Norwood lad

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 03:52 PM

Your chance to comment on the plans that will shape the local area for the next couple of decades (although if you want to comment in person you have .take a hike to South Norwood).

 

 

https://www.croydon....ce=localplantwo

 

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#209 Norwood lad

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 12:03 PM

If you want to Quiz Croydon or try and influence their plans for the area for the next 20 years you'll have to pop long to South Norwood next Wednesday.

 

https://www.croydon....an/clpproposals

 

Wednesday 9 December- 4pm - 8pm at South Norwood Methodist Church, Suffolk Road, South Norwood SE25 6EG, (on Norbury, Thornton Heath, South Norwood & Woodside and Crystal Palace & Upper Norwood).

 

The Croydon local plan: detailed policies and proposals (preferred and alternative options) is being published for consultation between from 6 November 2015 to 18 December 2015 inclusive alongside the partial review of the Strategic Policies. The Croydon Local Plan: Detailed Policies and Proposals will provide greater planning policy detail to the Strategic Policies, setting out development management planning policies and site allocations for a range of land uses, to meet the borough’s growth needs to 2036. The Detailed Policies and Proposals will also ensure a continued focus on the 16 Places of Croydon outlined in the Croydon Local Plan: Strategic Policies. The focus on the 16 Places of Croydon provides detailed context to important and valued character, functions and opportunities for each Place. Once adopted, the Detailed Policies and Proposals will replace the currently saved policies of the Unitary Development Plan (2006).