[Elmo]

Fang, on 12 February 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:

... has VN been threatened either, formally or informally, with legal action?

No. But we have no desire to move towards a situation where that may be the case.

Fang, on 12 February 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:

Yet there were no fears of litigation expressed and only a couple of interventions by James, to maintain order below decks.

You are dealing with a new moderation team who weren't present then. We're trying to keep order the best we can.

citizen M, on 12 February 2010 - 04:46 PM, said:

Is it because the proposals are almost ready to roll ie the team of multi-nationals & corporate reps have been sitting round the Chamber table this past year or two. The LAs have been lobbied, in Bromley's case successfully(this is to be expected as Stephen Carr is keen to pass on responsibility of the park). The Public Inquiry will conclude in 5 months.

This suggests to me that the criticisms and questions raised must have come at a very sensitive time seeing as how they have prompted a crude attempt to silence them. I wonder what else will emerge from behind the Chamber doors.

You are quite incorrect and have unleashed another tirade of hearsay and opinion. The management team of VN have in no way colluded with, or have come under pressure from, any party.

[James]

Fang, on 12 February 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:

If there is an attempt to gag VN, be it via a quiet 'word in the ear' or something more formal, we need to know. It will then be clear that we are not dealing with a case of self censorship and we can rally to support VN.

I'm quite happy to declare that nobody has asked me to say or do anything on their behalf.

My first comment on this topic was #239. Questions had been raised about the chamber's constitution and I felt uniquely qualified to clarify any issues, since it was redrafted by me whilst I was the Chairman of the Chamber.

At the same time I also expressed concern about the nature of comments that were being posted. Several people have since expressed similar concern. I think everyone is now well aware of the need to be respectful to one other when posting. Virtual Norwood is a privately owned site and some ground rules are necessary for its survival. We need to respect them.

Some of you have had a good old go at the Chamber and Ray over this issue but for me I found it both personally irritating and deeply ironic to see that Virtual Norwood was being aligned with being anti-Chamber. I'm not so concerned about this now but I wish that those who had scrutinised and criticised the Chamber had done so without resorting to personal comments. Instead you muddied the waters and weakened your own case.

[Axean]

John Greatrex, on 12 February 2010 - 01:36 PM, said:

The Friends of Crystal Palace Park funded last year's planning application renewal for the Corner. I am on the committee of that group.
Do you or other VNers have any 'small scale revamps and TLC' suggestions to channel through the 'friends'?

I think myself and several others would now be willing to join the FOCP.
I've sent you a personal message asking for more info about how to join the FOCP

Bromley cant undertake projects that clash with their supported Masterplan, so as they would need to fit in with the less contentious parts of the Masterplan

In terms of a small scale 'revamp'. I'd suggest implementing one of the proposals of the masterplan which would save money. This involves managing some areas as meadows. Despite the Masterplan suggesting improving and extending some areas of meadow, the ground staff dont appear aware of the plans and are busy getting rid the existing areas of meadow.
See the photo below

[citizen M]

Elmo, on 12 February 2010 - 05:25 PM, said:

You are quite incorrect and have unleashed another tirade of hearsay and opinion. The management team of VN have in no way colluded with, or have come under pressure from, any party.

Elmo the following comment:

This suggests to me that the criticisms and questions raised must have come at a very sensitive time seeing as how they have prompted a crude attempt to silence them. I wonder what else will emerge from behind the Chamber doors.

was in reference to feedback from other VN users and not directed towards the VN team at all, not one little bit. As I said before you guys do a grand job. The post you refer to contains opinion not tirade and was made because I was surprised to discover that there had been a previous discussion on this subject that, according to Fang, had been considerably more heated than anything on this thread. Sorry for not making that clear.

[kidcongo]

James you also were I think the first to mention the possibility of lawyers getting involved.
I still struggle to accept that those behind the NCP would feel personally abused by the criticisms on this thread.
Anyone with half a brain cell would understand the hornets nest they were stirring up putting forward a proposal of this nature, in this area and I certainly would not class Ray hall and his supporters in the CoC as stupid.

Heavy criticism, some of it, maybe, mildly personal would be expected I should think and they've had the freedom to rebuke any criticism right here on VN anytime they wish. Talk of lawyers seems a little hysterical to me.

I am however pretty sure that they are really quite irritated that information has been leaked to and dissected by members of this forum (residents of CP basically) before they were ready to go fully public with their plans, for whatever reason.

[MattVN]

We've decided to close the thread.


There will be people upset on both sides that we are closing it, but I know there will be a lot of VNers who will be relieved (not just talking about the mods).


The main reason is that things are getting too nasty and a lot of people are caught in the middle, not liking what is happening on VN. This thread, although it could be a really useful debate seems to be sucking the oxygen from the rest of the VN community.

At the end of the day (and although I'm not local) VN is our community. The great thing about VN is that people are very friendly and want to look after their community. That includes treating others with respect. For whatever reasons this hasn't been the case recently.

Strong voices on each side of the debate have begun to argue, name call, insinuate... and what happens is, this noise drowns out anything positive that could have come from the discussion. When this happens, the people fighting for something they believe in run the risk of looking as though they just like to fight.


I know the mods have been involved in responding to messages from members concerned and I'll speak from my experiences. I've received emails/PMs from members who think that VN is aligned with the plans and in roughly equal numbers messages saying that VN is aligned against the plans. I have received reports from users saying that someone has made a 'personal attack' and when I check there are personal attacks also from the reporter! This has pretty much been my day to day for the last week. I really don't want this to be my next week too.

I think it's also important to state clearly that VN is not aligned with any side. To be honest I have little idea about the proposals, CoC or the individuals mentioned - everytime I start reading it just seems like a few members are arguing and drowning out the important stuff.


When people are throwing stones at some point someone has to step in. The mods and I plus many other long time members of VN think that closing this thread will be positive for the community.

For now, please don't start a new discussion on this.
If you have some news, then maybe we can start a new thread in future and start over.