48 replies to this topic

[Summit Lover]

I may regret starting this off but what are your thoughts on Wikileaks? Good/bad/indifferent?

A curious SL

(ps - can we keep any replies non-personal to other members and within forum guidelines please).

Edited by Summit Lover, 05 December 2010 - 12:38 PM.

[andreas]

All very interesting, but to be honest, I've been rather underwhelmed.

There are all sorts of people working for any government, all with their personal views and angles on issues. Nearly everything that's come out is the sort of gossip, intelligence and speculation that one would expect to hear.

The key point is that a government's policy is shaped by a diverse range of sources. So the individual views of diplomats and other officials are fascinating, but only up to a point.

Also, there's a bit of selection bias going on - only the more juicy bits get taken up by the media - there'll be thousands more commonplace and banal bits of evidence, which help leaven the spice.

I'd therefore be cautious at jumping to the view that much of this represents "what the US government really thinks". However, the fascinating analysis is just beginning - because sifting through all the material may reveal instances where that conclusion may well be warranted.

[Local]

I'm more bothered by the outrageous attempts by the Chinese government to censor access to information on the internet.

PS does anyone have a good garnish to use with Christmas goose?

[splicer]

Well whenever this or almost any other government was more powers to record emails, web access, phone calls and access their contents they say that if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.

surely the same applies to their communications if they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear about it being made public however I suspect what they really mean is they want to be able to know what everyone else is doing but that no should know what they are doing....

[Ziwa]

On the serious side, I think WikiLeaks does change the world, though I think the time that really did it was not this release, but the release in July on the Afghanistan war logs. The 5-minute clip is a good synopsis; the full hour was mesmerizing.

On the recent WikiLeaks release, Charlie Brooker's comments get me smiling:
"Only someone with the heart of a concrete robot could fail to feel faintly – just faintly – sorry for the American diplomats whose cables were leaked, what with all that private unguarded chit-chat being made public. If the world had an annual end-of-year office party (which, come to think of it, is a brilliant idea), 2010's would be an awkward affair....."

Edited by Ziwa, 06 December 2010 - 12:32 AM.

[londheart]

The person who comes up smelling of roses is Mervyn King, whose 'slip' indicates that the Governor of the Bank of England doesn't have to be a compliant Tory after all - so fragrant, in fact, that this gives the lie to the whole Wikileaks saga as some sort of set-up. A rather conservative leak-binge, after all(?).

Cranberry, orange and/or bread sauce, Local (but don't invite me round if you're going to be McCarthyist at Christmas!

There are lots of 'concrete robot' commentators about, Ziwa (including that MP whose husband ordered the porn movie at public expense!)!

[danielm]

It's all about trust (and lack of it). We may distrust our governments (sometimes), but a total lack of trust is corrosive. And do we have any reason to trust Wikileaks more?

[hild]

I'm feeling a bit torn by this, as although parts of me chuckle with glee I can't help feel that an awful lot of stuff I've said myself in the past would hardly bear up under such close scrutiny... At the end of the day everybody makes unguarded comments from time to time and I'd hate for the result of all this to be politicians being even more unwilling to say what they really think for fear of it being smeared all over the papers...

[Summit Lover]

Mod note: Unrelated posts regarding Local's search for Christmas goose garnish solutions moved to the Tavern. Please do feel free to help solve her dilemma for her there.

Edited by Summit Lover, 07 December 2010 - 10:24 AM.

[Summit Lover]

If LBC news is correct Assange has just been arrested in the UK.

[Local]

Interesting that you thought my sauce for the gander posts were unrelated to this thread SL, but it may save me from being arrested also.

[Ziwa]

'What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.'

(Local forgot a rule of the internet - its very difficult to discern irony over the ether. Needs to be marked out in big IRONY letters. If it had been a long post, or if you knew Ms/r Local, you might have guessed it, but otherwise its a bit obscure...) Is this the irony emoticon (or is that Julian Assange behind those glasses?)

[Summit Lover]

I bow before your superior wit Local. Really I do. But perhaps a laborious lead up to the punch line (but then again I have a shamefully low concentration level).

Anyway, back to Mr Assange. I really can't make my mind up about the value of Wikileaks, being torn somewhat in two. Maybe I shall sit of the proverbial fence

Edited by Summit Lover, 07 December 2010 - 07:48 PM.

[Local]

Stamina SL!
And you might have to ask the LibDems to make room for you up there.

[Dazza]

Its not going to change anyones lifes but it may make a few of the percieved dangerous countries tip very close to the edge.

Dead against wikileaks if you want gossip watch tv soaps !

If I had access to all your personal emails & files I bet I would find some hair curling stuff as i'm sure we all have skeletons in the closet !

Dazza